Volume 47 Number 20
                    Produced: Wed Mar  9 23:04:15 EST 2005

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Bostoner Rebbe
         [Perets Mett]
Cell Phones Redux
         [Janice Gelb]
Digest 47:14
         [Akiva Miller]
Kashrus of Yankee Stadium
         [Dov Teichman]
Names of Hassidic Dynasties in Israel
         [Akiva Miller]
Names of Rebbes
         [Yisrael Medad]
Names of Rebbes and Chassidic Grou
         [Yehonatan Chipman]
Rebbes' Place Names
         [Mike Gerver]
Separate Seating At Funerals (2)
         [Gil Student, <chips@...>]
Separate seating at "funerals."
         [Sammy Finkelman]
Separation of Sexes At Funerals
         [Orrin Tilevitz]
Touro Synagoue
         [Nathan Lamm]
zaycher vs. zecher
         [Hosseinof, Joshua (Exchange)]


From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 22:45:08 +0000
Subject: Bostoner Rebbe

Ben Katz wrote:
> My favorite, along these lines, was many years ago, when the Rav of
> the shul I used to daven in announced that the "Bostoner Rebbi from
> Boston" was to be the guest of the community the following shabat.
> Aside from the usual ("Where else would you expect the Bostoner rebbi
> to be from?"), I assummed that when the Bostoner rebbi had to relocate
> to the US, that he figured Boston was the city he should pick!

The first Bostoner Rebbe was Rabbi Pinchos Dovid Horowitz zatsal of
Jerusalem. he settled in Boston when he reached the USA, but later moved
to New York.

He was succeeded by his two sons:
his older son Rabbi Moshe Zatsal, who lived in New York, was known as
the Bostoner Rebbe of New York; his younger son, Rabbi Leivi Yitschok
shlit"o, who lives in Boston and Yerusholayim, is known as the Bostoner
Rebbe of Boston.

Perets Mett


From: Janice Gelb <j_gelb@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 14:31:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Cell Phones Redux

You might recall that we had an earlier discussion about a ban on cell
phones because of the newer phones that had Internet access enabled. It
appears that the rabbanut in Israel has dealt with this problem. Below
are excerpts from a story in the Times

"AN ISRAELI mobile phone company has brought out a handset to cater for
the one-million-strong ultra-Orthodox Jewish community in an attempt to
boost business.

"The 'kosher' phone carries a stamp signifying its approval by
rabbinical authorities, who will recommend haredi community members to
take out contracts with MIRS Communication.

"The Motorola handsets have been modified to disable internet access,
SMS text services and video and voice-mail applications."


From: <kennethgmiller@...> (Akiva Miller)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 17:35:32 -0500
Subject: Digest 47:14

For some reason, I did not receive MJ Digest #47:14. If there's anyone
else who didn't get it, just go to

[I was contacted by at least one other individual who said they did not
get the issue. Mod.]


From: <DTnLA@...> (Dov Teichman)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 08:10:51 EST
Subject: Re: Kashrus of Yankee Stadium

Regarding Sporting events and theaters and the like, I know many
Orthodox Jews go, yet all I have seen who write on the matter forbid it.
See Avoda Zara 18b where Theaters and Circuses are described as a
"Moshav Leitzim."

Mishna Brura in Siman 307:59 mentions this and laments that in our many
sins nowadays it has become like hefker that people attend theaters,
etc.  R. Moshe in Igros Moshe Yoreh Deah 4:11 says anyone attending
theaters and sporting events is transgresses the prohibitions of Moshav
Letzim and Bitul Torah.

Are there any poskim who allow going to Baseball games? or any other
sporting event or theaters for that matter?

Thank you,
Dov Teichman


From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 13:29:38 GMT
Subject: Re: Names of Hassidic Dynasties in Israel

Some one asked <<< But if he's "of Raanana", why not the Ra'ananer? >>>

Nachum Klafter responded <<< Hassidic dynasties are identified with the
towns where a group of Hassidim clustered around their spiritual leader.
They are not identified by where that leader happens to be living at
that moment. ... obviously you are familiar with the fact that so many
yeshivot (Ponovitch, Mir, etc.) and Hassidic dynasties (Ger, Vishnetz,
etc.) who have relocated to Eretz Yisrael have retained their European
names. >>>

Another example of this is the "Miami Boys Choir", which was established
in Miami, and soom thereafter moved to Brooklyn, yet has retained the
original name.

And don't forget French Fries, English Muffins, or Hawaiian Punch ---
ow! ow! hey, it's almost Purim, okay?

Akiva Miller


From: Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:00:42 +0200
Subject: Names of Rebbes

Nathan Lamm wrote:

"Lubavitch" was merely one of a number of Chabad groups (that is,
descendants of the Alter Rebbe) existing at the same time. It was the
only one to survive the Holocaust"

I know that there was a big dispute between the last Rebbe and his
brother-in-law but could we have a bit more explanation on this?  What
other Chabad group existed outside those that viewed the Rebbe Rayatz
not their Rebbe before WW II?

Yisrael Medad


From: Yehonatan Chipman <yonarand@...>
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 15:33:04 +0200
Subject: Re: Names of Rebbes and Chassidic Grou

In MJ v47n16, Nathan Lamm writes" 

<<... there are, in fact, two Bostoner Rebbes. The original Rebbe moved
to Brooklyn; one of his sons moved back to Boston. Thus, his eldest son
became (after the original Rebbe's death) the "Bostoner Rebbe of Boro
Park"... while the son who moved back...  is the "Bostoner Rebbe of
Boston" (and Har Nof).>>

Small correction: The original rebbe, R. Pinhas David ha-Levi Horowitz
ztz"l, settled directly in Boston upon arriving in the United Staes; he
took the name originally (when some old-time European Jews wented to
crown him with the title of "Lelover," his traditional yihus) with a
certain self-deprecating irony.  Also, the younger, living brother,
R. Levi Yitzhak ("The Bostoner of Boston"), shlit"a, in fact speaks with
a Boston accent, whish he could only have acquired by having been born
and grown up in that city.

Yehonatan Chipman


From: <MJGerver@...> (Mike Gerver)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 02:46:24 EST
Subject: Rebbes' Place Names

Ben Katz writes in v47n14, regarding the apparent redundancy of "the
Bostoner Rebbe from Boston,"

      Aside from the usual ("Where else would you expect the Bostoner
      rebbi to be from?"),

The original Bostoner Rebbe, R. Pinchas Dovid Horowitz, settled in
Boston and adopted the title "Bostoner" when he first came to America in
1914 (because World War I had just broken out, and he couldn't get back
home to Jerusalem from Poland where he had been visiting). He moved to
New York in 1940, but was still known as the Bostoner Rebbe. After he
died in 1942, his older son R. Moshe was known as "the Bostoner Rebbe
from New York," a title taken over by his own son after he died (in
1985, I think), while R. Pinchas Dovid's younger son, R. Levi Yitzchak,
moved back to Boston and became known as "the Bostoner Rebbe from

Mike Gerver
Raanana, Israel


From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 18:50:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Separate Seating At Funerals

Separation between men and women at funerals is the primary case
mentioned in Sukkah 51b-52a.

Gil Student

From: <chips@...>
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 20:30:05 -0800
Subject: Re: Separate Seating At Funerals

> Must men and women sit separately at a funeral, and if so, is there
> any source for the requirement?  

At my Mother's levaya we sat mixed, my sisters next to their
husbands. On one side of me was a sister, I don't recall who was at my
other side [amazing that I can't recall that].

As for the kaddish at the grave, if there was a segregation made I was
unaware of it.


From: Sammy Finkelman <sammy.finkelman@...>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 05 09:53:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Separate seating at "funerals."

-> From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
-> I do not propose to discuss **separate** seating at funerals
-> To me, the whole idea of seating at funerals is novel. I have never
-> seen it anywhere in England or in Israel. The prevailing (universal?)
-> custom in these countries is to stand, and no seating is provided.
-> Is sitting at a funeral an American custom? [typo corrected]

I think Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...> was actually thinking of
levayehs - only there is no separate word in English for this [although
come to think of it, there is no word for funeral in Hebrew - the Ben
Yehuda dictionary has only levayeh or avel (mourning)] - so the word
funeral has come to cover this, because the hespedim (eulogies) are
usually held there (because it is considered an honor to the deceased to
hold it there unless there are very few people because there are always
more people when you have to travcel a shorter distance or take less
time). Also there a lot of Jews don't really know very much, so they
wouldn't even know there is such a thing as a levayeh or associate the
word levayeh only with accompanying or seeing off the body in the street
on the way to cemetery, which was its older meaning.


From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 06:57:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Separation of Sexes At Funerals

Thank you to those who pointed out Sukka 52a.  My question, though,
remains: how serious is this requirement?  Is it like that of davening
in a shul, where (at the very least) one may not participate (whatever
that means in the funeral context; perhaps, to say amen?) in a service
with no mechitza?  If not, what is the best practice if one is to


From: Nathan Lamm <nelamm18@...>
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 14:35:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Touro Synagoue

I believe the Newport congregation has been affiliated with Shearith
Israel from very early on, perhaps even established under its
auspices. I recall reading that it continues to pay a formal "rent" of
one dollar a year for use of the building to this day.

Nachum Lammm


From: Hosseinof, Joshua (Exchange) <JHosseinof@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:16:10 -0500
Subject: re: zaycher vs. zecher

Ben Katz wrote in v47n17:
> The zeycher and zecher business gets me riled every year.  There is
> no serious basis for reading the verse twice, once with each
> pronounciation.  There is an unreferenced statement to this effect in
> the Mishnah Berurah, but I believe it is based on an erroneous
> understanding of what the GRA did, according to an article by Rabbi
> Breur.

I agree that the word in parashat zachor has a tsere under the zayin,
and all the important biblical manuscripts support that it has a tsere
and not a segol under the zayin.  However, it is not correct to state
that the pronunciation should only be "zaycher".  The authentic
sephardic pronunciation is to pronounce both a segol and tsere the same
(as in the word "help" - like a segol), but to slightly lengthen the
tsere.  This is similar to the fact that sephardim pronounce both a
patach and kamatz the same way, but slightly lengthen the kamatz.

See the responsa of Rabbi Avraham ben Harambam #79, question Bet.  He
was asked why the Gemara Berachot 15b does not list the phrase "benay
yisrael" as a case in keriat shema where we must be careful to not join
the two words together since "benay" ends with yud, and "yisrael" begins
with yud.  He answers that "benay" is pronounced as if the yud is silent
like an aleph (so it is pronounced "bene").  He calls the vowel under
the nun a "patach" however which is a little confusing - perhaps the
name tsere is a modern invention?  So if the yud is not vocalised it
could not be "benay", and the tsere sound could not possibly be an "ay"
sound.  So according to sephardic pronuncation we pronounce it as bene,
and the yud is not vocalized - and we pronounce it the same way we would
pronounce the word "beneh" in Adir Hu on pesach, and the tsere is
pronounced like a segol.

I wonder if in some way this is what led to the dispute in Ashkenazic
circles on how to pronounce this particular instance of "zecher" -
textually from manuscripts we know it's a tsere, but since we are extra
careful about pronunciation of this section of the Torah, maybe there
was some vestigial memory in communities that the word was always
pronounced "zecher" instead of "zaycher"

See also Mail Jewish v13n44 in 1994 where Alan Cooper wrote: 

>In response to Pinchus Laufer's queries about Hebrew pronunciation: (1)
>the differentiation of segol from tsere disappeared a long time ago in
>most words.  See already Rosen's _Textbook of Israeli Hebrew_ (more
>than 30 years old), p. 2.  He cites the words DOfeq and doFEQ ("pulse"
>/ "knocking"), and states that the /e/ vowels are bascially the same
>(irrespective of the facts that the former is a segol and the latter a
>tsere, and that one is stressed while the other is not).  There is a
>most illuminating discussion of the proper pronunciation of tsere in
>Bentzion Hakohen's book, _Sefat Emet_, pp. 208-219.  Hakohen raises
>interesting questions about the age and authenticity of the
>pronunciation of tsere as /ey/.


End of Volume 47 Issue 20