Volume 47 Number 33
                    Produced: Tue Mar 22 21:45:15 EST 2005

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Baseball Games
         [Dov Teichman]
Birkat Ha-Gomel
         [Stuart Feldhamer]
Book Ownership
         [Stuart Feldhamer]
         [Yisrael Medad]
Cardamom as Kitniyot
         [Orrin Tilevitz]
Daf Yomi Trot
         [Ed Goldstein]
Government of Israe
         [Batya Medad]
Government of Israel
         [Joshua Meisner]
haleluhu V/B in Psalm 150
         [Baruch J. Schwartz]
Purim and aliyah
The Schiavo case
         [Chaim Shapiro]
Sports and theaters, then and now
         [Bernard Raab]
Whole World=Eretz Yisrael?
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
WWI (was re: Bostoner shlita)
         [Ed Goldstein]
         [Chaim Zorach Shapiro]


From: <DTnLA@...> (Dov Teichman)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 13:51:06 EST
Subject: Re: Baseball Games

c.halevi <c.halevi@...>  writes:

<<If I'm not mistaken, when the G'mara (Talmud) was written, theaters
quite often featured plays where pagan gods and idolatrous Greek and
Roman culture permeated plays. Furthermore, Greek sporting events were
held in the nude, and circuses then meant gladitorial murder and/or
cruelty to animals being killed.

This being the case, modern plays and all sporting events are a far cry
from some 2,000 years ago. I know some people can't handle the sight of
a woman in a bathing suit, or even basketball shorts, but doesn't this
leave lots of room to enjoy many other sports, even if you're haredi
(Ultra-Orthodox)? Ditto for non-sexually oriented, clean language

The problem is that we have had at least 2 major poskim in the last 100
years who HAVE applied that gemara to present day sports and theatrical
performances; the Chofetz Chaim and R. Moshe Feinstein zt"l. (Again, see
Mishna Brura in Siman 307:59 and Igros Moshe Yoreh Deah 4:11.)

My question is simply are there any poskim that DO allow attendance at
these type of functions, or is the segment of orthodox jewry that
attends ball games, movies, etc. just acting without halachic basis?

Yehonatan Chipman also mentioned that the old Hirschian school of "Torah
im derekh eretz" considered participation in cultural events as a worthy
pastime, and Rabbi Soloveitchik zt"l sort of made a vague remark about
movies not being forbidden. But are there any modern day poskim that
will allow attending these pastimes under any sort of circumstance? Do
the current followers of the Hirschian philosophy (e.g. the Washington
Hights Yekke community) attend theater, sporting events, and the like?

Dov Teichman


From: Stuart Feldhamer <Stuart.Feldhamer@...>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:02:50 -0500
Subject: RE: Birkat Ha-Gomel

>From: Nathan Lamm <nelamm18@...>
>In shul this morning, a woman recited Birkat Ha-Gomel.  Not so unusual,
>but it got me thinking for the first time that siddurim only print the
>response in the masculine, and, from what I can tell, that's how
>everyone responded. I'm trying to work it out, but can someone better at
>dikduk than I tell me what the proper feminine response would be?

How about:

"Mi shegemalaich kol tov, hu yigmaleich kol tov selah"

But anyway I don't know if you're supposed to say a variation on the
text in the siddur. I remember once asking about "hamakom y'nacheim"
etc. that you say upon leaving a shivah house, and was told that the
standard text applies even if it's just one person sitting shivah, for



From: Stuart Feldhamer <Stuart.Feldhamer@...>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:00:33 -0500
Subject: RE: Book Ownership

> From: Judith Weil <weildj@...>
>> What is the origin of the custom of writing "LaHashem Haaertz Umelo'ah"
>> when writing one's name in a book to signify ownership? Why books and 
>> not other articles you might lend out (chairs come to mind)?

>I think the reason for this is that some people buy Jewish books from
>their maaser money, and regard these books as for public use.

I thought the reason for writing that in seforim was to indicate that
you realize that everything really belongs to Hashem, and therefore you
are allowing someone to temporarily borrow your sefer without asking
permission for the sake of learning. This particularly applies when the
sefer is sitting in a beit midrash.

Incidentally, is it OK to buy seforim with maaser money? It would seem
to me that that would not be an appropriate use of maaser money, since
no matter what you write in the book, it's not really for public use.
It's yours, and it's not tzedakah.



From: Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 20:49:37 +0200
Subject: Breuer

Mark Steiner complains:-
> I wish the participants in this list would learn the correct spelling of
> the name "Breuer."  Almost every issue has a new misspelling.  Thanks.

The grandson of Yosef Breuer, who is the son of Yaakov, lives here in
Shiloh.  His family name now is Bar-Or.  Complicated, no?

Yisrael Medad


From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:31:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Cardamom as Kitniyot

Is cardamom included in the gezeira of kitniyot, or is there otherwise a
general minhag for ashkenazim not to use it on Pesach?

The question is whether an ashkenazi may buy whole cardamom pods before
Pesach, check them for extraneous matter, and use them on Pesach.


From: <bernieavi@...> (Ed Goldstein)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:17:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Daf Yomi Trot

even krias shma...what about the few psukim we say after birchot
hatorah? that covers tnach and shas in one shot (since birkat kohanim,
my rebbe R Wohlgemuth shlita said) has 60 letters like 60 masechtot of

subscribe to insights on dafyomi.co.il.  It's a great way to review the
daf in simple english and you can do it in any depth you care to.  there
are other aspects they provide too.

Rabbi Ed Goldstein
Woodmere NY


From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 06:32:00 +0200
Subject: Re: Government of Israe

"Me too. But suppose we use the word "incomplete", instead of "flawed"."

I have a problem with both.  Maybe it would be better to say: "Even when
we have trouble understanding, or accepting, certain mitzvot...



From: Joshua Meisner <jmeisner@...>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:09:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Government of Israel

There has recently been a lot of discussion on the list over the
relationship between the form of government prescribed by the Torah and
and a democracy that includes both genders.  There is a work by Rav
Shimon Federbush called Mishpat HaMeluchah B'Yisrael, published by Mosad
HaRav Kook in 1952, that discusses some of these issues in one of its
later chapters.  Unfortunately, I came across it while writing a report
on a different topic, so did not have time to read it carefully, but my
vague recollection of his thesis is that is that the two sets of values
are not entirely contradictory, and there is some middle ground between
them.  I have since graduated from college, so can no longer access this
book, but perhaps someone else is familiar with the work and can comment
on it.

- Joshua


From: Baruch J. Schwartz <schwrtz@...>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:20:34 +0200
Subject: haleluhu V/B in Psalm 150

The rules of the te-amim for EME"T (Iyyov, Mishlei and Tehillim) are
less well-known than those for the other 21 books, and this may be the
source of the confusion.

Not all of the printed editions and siddurim have gotten this right, but
here are the correct data:

Haleluhu indeed has the potential to bring about the elimination of the
dagesh in BGDKPT in the following word, since it ends with a long vowel
in an open syllable. However, for this to happen, a second condition
needs to be fulfilled: there must be a conjunctive accent under the word
haleluhu itself.

This is the case in the first half of v. 2, where halelulu has mercha,
therefore: hallelulu Virqi'a uzzo. It is also the case in the first half
of v. 5, therefore: haleluhu Vetsiltsele shama. In the remaining cases,
haleluhu has a disjunctive accent: in the second half of vss. 1, 2, 3, 4
and 5 it has revia mugrash, and in the first half of vss. 3 and 4 it has
dehi (the thing that looks like a tippecha but comes at the beginning of
the word).

It is readily observable that the reason for the disjunctive in 1b, 2b,
3a, 3b, 4a, 4b and 5b is that the half-verse has three words, two of
which follow haleluhu, whereas in 2a and 5a the half-verse has only two
words -- and in these conditions, unlike the system of the 21 Books, the
taamei Emet tend to lose the disjunctive entirely.

If your siddur has failed to record this accurately, let the publishers


From: Yakir <yakirhd@...>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 07:32:24 +0200
Subject: Purim and aliyah

> From: Aliza Berger
> I recently read on another list, with no annotation, the idea that
> it's not necessary to make aliyah (move to Israel) because when the
> Messiah comes, the whole world will become Eretz Yisrael.

OK !
Lets take this further.
The only HolyDay I need to keep now is Purim as all the others will be 
abolished when the Mashiach comes. (according to the Midrash).

So have a really happy Purim !

Regarding :
> I live in Jerusalem, but am planning to spend Shabbat outside
> Jerusalem.

My (!!!) understanding is that you miss out on Purim this
year. i.e. there is no chiyuv (obligation) on either day.  (The chiyuv
of each of the days is determined by where you are at daybreak of that
day).  A neighbour of mine is in a similar situation. He is a ba'al
koreh and my (!!!!) understanding is that we have the strange situation
that everyone reads Thursday night./Fri morning but he will not be able
to read the megillah for others because he is not obligated.

I am waiting to see/hear authoritative answers.


From: <Dagoobster@...> (Chaim Shapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:57:16 EST
Subject: The Schiavo case

I wanted to get thoughts from the list on the Terry Schiavo case.

Chaim Shapiro


From: Bernard Raab <beraab@...>
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 22:08:02 -0500
Subject: Sports and theaters, then and now

>From: c.halevi
>Dov Teichman noted that >>Regarding Sporting events and theaters and the
>like, I know many Orthodox Jews go, yet all I have seen who write on the
>matter forbid it. See Avoda Zara 18b where Theaters and Circuses are
>described as a "Moshav Leitzim."<<
> I know some people can't handle the sight of
>a woman in a bathing suit, or even basketball shorts, but doesn't this
>leave lots of room to enjoy many other sports, even if you're haredi
>(Ultra-Orthodox)? Ditto for non-sexually oriented, clean language plays.

OK; we saw "Samson and Delilah" at the Met Opera last week with plenty
of scantily clad dancers to scandalize us, but personally, I was more
disturbed by the chorus of "Jews" who were wearing tallesim over their
heads and t'fillin on their brows. But I got over it, and wouldn't
hesitate to take any of my (older) grandchildren to see this thrilling

BTW, we saw a beautiful performance of "La Boheme" at the Met a few
weeks ago, and the conductor was wearing a kippa! Will wonders never

b'shalom--Bernie R.


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 04:56:43 +0200
Subject: Whole World=Eretz Yisrael?

While the idea of Eretz Yisrael spreading to the entire world is
intriguing, according to Chaim Bloch's "Heichal Ledivrei Chazal
Upitgameihem" (1948, Pardes Publishing House), p. 612, there is no such
statement in our literature. The closest thing he can find is Sifrei
Devarim, which has Jerusalem spread to Damascus. Another version is that
Jerusalem will spread to the very Kisay Hakavod.

There are other intriguing non-source items which he lists, including
some very well-known ones. They may sometimes be found in a different
stylistic format, but not as commonly used. According to him, these

Hamatchil bemitzvah omrim lo gemor.
(One who begins a Mitzvah is told to complete it.)

Ayn orayach machnis orayach.
(A guest may not bring in a guest.)

Lama nikra shemo chazir? She'atid HKBH lehachziro leYisrael.
(Why is it called "Chazir"? Because HKBH will return it to Israel.)

Kabedayhu Vechashedayhu.
(Honor him but suspect him.)

Devarim hayotzim min haleiv nichnasim el haleiv.
(Words which come from the heart enter the heart.)

Kol hako-ays ke'ilu oveid avodah zarah.
(To become angry is like engaging in idolatry.)

According to Bloch, Rambam quotes this as a saying of Chazal, but no one
has found the source.

Shmuel Himelstein


From: <bernieavi@...> (Ed Goldstein)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:18:56 -0500
Subject: Re: WWI (was re: Bostoner shlita)

As a Bostoner Chasid, i find Peretz's information accurate to my

More importantly, let's not forget...WWI began on Tisha BAv with the
shooting of the Archduke Ferdinand.

Rabbi Ed Goldstein
Woodmere NY


From: <Dagoobster@...> (Chaim Zorach Shapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:00:50 EST
Subject: Zorach

The name Zorach is a bit unusual, even in Orthodox circles.  It is,
however, my middle name (after my Zedie, Z'L) The question I have is why
the standard name that I have seen a few times is Zorach and not Zerach
which is the actual name of Yehuda and Tamar's son (the most obvious
possibility is the name being at a suf pasuk is listed as Zorach not
Zerach in the Torah itself.

Chaim Zorach Shapiro


End of Volume 47 Issue 33