Volume 47 Number 40
                    Produced: Fri Mar 25  6:19:08 EST 2005

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Art Scroll v Singers (2)
         [Lawrence Myers, Alan Rubin]
Baseball games / Halacha
         [Dov Teichman]
Living Wills
         [Robert Schoenfeld]
Purim Meshulash   (URGENT)
         [Yehonatan Chipman]
Purim procedures this year in Jerusalem
         [Joshua Hosseinof]
Torah Law
         [Michael Kahn]
         [Andy Goldfinger]
The word "goy"
         [Andy Goldfinger]
         [Alex Heppenheimer]
Year in Israel
         [Batya Medad]
Yeshivah in Israel after High School (2)
         [Bruce Eli Mosbacher, Ben Katz]
Yiddish in Federal Court
         [Orrin Tilevitz]


From: Lawrence Myers <lawrence@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:09:00 -0000
Subject: Re: Art Scroll v Singers

As a long time member of United Synagogue, I heartily agree.  I'm very
upset at seeing our minhagim whittled away.

In Shacharit, Singers has "Uvinimah kedoshah, kulom" etc, whereas
Artscroll inter alia has "Uvinimah, kedushah kulom" etc

Lawrence Myers
Fax No 08719892164

From: Alan Rubin <alanrubin1@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:42:58 +0000
Subject: Art Scroll v Singers

Immanuel Burton writes
> The Shul which I usually go to is a United Synagogue, the official
> Siddur of which is the Authorised Daily Prayer Book, popularly 
> known as the Singer's Siddur.  However, I have noticed that recently 
> a large ArtScroll Siddur has appeared on the bimah for use by the 
> person leading the davenning.

And goes on to point out some difference between the two.

I go to a shul which is Independent but orientated towards the United
Synagogue. Most of the siddurim in the shul are Art Scroll and we also
have a large Art Scroll for use by the person leading the davenning.
Since I am an aveil (mourner) and am leading the davenning frequently I
have become more aware of variations in the text. People are changing
their davenning simply because they read what is in Art Scroll. I am
concerned that the customs of shuls may alter simply because people like
using the Art Scroll siddurim.

However, I read this weekend that the United Synagogue have approached
Art Scroll for them to produce an Art Scroll version of Singer's
Siddur. I hope that if such an edition gets published it is successful
and prevents the erosion of 'Minhag Anglia' (British customs)

Alan Rubin


From: <DTnLA@...> (Dov Teichman)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:44:49 EST
Subject: Re: Baseball games / Halacha

Bernard Raab <beraab@...> writes:

<< These days we tend to have a more thoughtful approach to our
religion, but I hope we resist the forces which want to equate
religiosity with asceticism. It is important to realize that in such
matters, responsible public behavior by the observant community leads
the way, and the halacha follows. >>

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the last comment. Certainly, when
there is a well established minhag or conduct of a community then Poskim
try to explain the behavior to conform with halacha. However, often they
cannot, and the behavior/minhag is modified. Why would this be any
different? Doesn't the word "Halacha" connote the way we are to follow;
and not vice-versa, i.e. do what we please, and halacha will be written
to conform with that?

Happy Purim,
Dov Teichman


From: Robert Schoenfeld <frank_james@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:39:36 -0500
Subject: Living Wills

Both the OU and Agudah have halachic living wills which can be
downloaded fron the internet. In both continued supplying of food and
water is specified



From: Yehonatan Chipman <yonarand@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:18:08 +0200
Subject: Re:  Purim Meshulash   (URGENT)

Perets Mett wrote, in response to Aliza Berger's question:

<<The generally accepted opinion is that the date of Purim is determined
by your location (or, sometimes, intended location) at daybreak on the
relevant day.

Thus anyone who is outside Yerusholayim (or a walled city) at daybreak
on 14 Ador celebrates Purim on 14 Ador.  Likewise, anyone who is inside
Yerusholayim (or a walled city) at daybreak on 15 Ador celebrates Purim
on 15 Ador.

So, by leaving Yerusholayim during the daytime of 14 Ador (this Friday)
you lose completely the opportunity to fulfill the mitsvos of shlach
monos and seudas Purim. (However, this year, you still get to hear the

This is incorrect.  If one is not in a unwalled location at dawn (or
sunrise) of 14th Adar, one isn't obligated in the Purim mitzvot on the
14th, but the "default option," as we'd say today, is to celebrate on
the 15th.  One can't escape Purim.  Like every other mitzvah, all Jews
are obligated to observe it; the only twist is, since there are two
possible days, which one does a given individual observe.  And, in the
case of Purim mitzvot, women are obligated like men.  (Leaving aside the
lomdus abot "hearing" vs. "reading" the megillah).

This is the rule every year, and the fact that Shushan Purim is on
Shabbat this year doesn't obviate the basic principle, only spreads out
their observance.  Thus, Aliza says Al hanisim on the 15th wherever she
is, and has a personal obligation for Seudah and Mishloah Manot on the
16th. See O.H. 688.5 and Mishnah Berurah for details. And, if you want
to get into the reasoning of the rishsonim and are able to learn such
things, see the Rif on the relevant sugya, and the Baal Hamaor and
Milhamot Hashem there.

Yehonatan Chipman


From: Joshua Hosseinof <JHosseinof@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:39:55 -0500
Subject: RE: Purim procedures this year in Jerusalem

In an earlier posting on Mail-jewish I wrote:
> Rav Ovadia Yosef adds (Sefer Chazon Ovadia - Purim) that on the
> Shabbat of Purim in Yerushalayim, people should say a full Hallel
> without a beracha.

Upon reading the relevant passage in the sefer Chazon Ovadia again, it
seems that the only people Rav Ovadia recommended to say Hallel on
Shabbat were walled-city residents who could not read the megillah on
Friday for whatever reason, or a boy in a walled-city who becomes
Bar-mitzvah on Shabbat itself.  My sincere apologies for the
misinformation that I had previously posted.  The sentence that I had
read that said "it is a good idea to read full hallel on shabbat without
a beracha" is actually dependent on the previous few sentences which are
discussing walled-city residents who missed hearing the megillah on


From: Michael Kahn <mi_kahn@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:16:27 -0500
Subject: RE: Torah Law

>Shoshana Ziskind wrote <<< To say, however, that Torah law is inherently
>flawed doesn't make sense to me. >>>
>Me too. But suppose we use the word "incomplete", instead of "flawed".

Toras Hashem Tmimah.


From: Andy Goldfinger <Andy.Goldfinger@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:52:59 -0500
Subject: Wikipedia

Recently, one poster provided a reference to an article in the
Wikipedia, an on-line encyclopedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page).  The Wikipedia comes up rather
often as a reference in on-line searches.

I would like to caution readers about this source.  Looking at the
Wikipedia main web site, one sees that it is a "open encyclopedia."
This means that any person can log on, at any time, and make any change
to any article they wish.  The theory is that in this way corrections
will be made until each article converges on the truth.

In my opinion, the opposite is true.  At any given time, a Wikipedia
article represents the opinion of the last person to make a change.

In any case, users should be aware of the Wikipedia's policies.

-- Andy Goldfinger


From: Andy Goldfinger <Andy.Goldfinger@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:46:41 -0500
Subject: The word "goy"

There has been some discussion about the word "goy."

I have always assumed something about the history of this word which may
or may not be true, and I would like to hear from people who know more
than I do.

I assume that the original meaning of the word is "nation" or "people,"
as in "goy kadosh" (holy nation).  From this meaning, the plural "goyim"
is formed, meaning nations.  Since it usually refers to groups of
non-Jewish nations, it comes to mean "non-Jewish people."  Then, from
this plural meaning, some sort of back-formation occurs to a new
singular "goy" meaning a non-Jewish individual.

Does anyone know if this history is true?

-- Andy Goldfinger


From: Alex Heppenheimer <aheppenh@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:49:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: WWI

In MJ 47:38, Ben Katz wrote:
>          This is a common misperception.  I remember looking this up
> many years ago.  The archduke was not assassinated on 9 Av 1914.  It
> turns out that there are many possible start dates to WWI. The only 1
> that occurred on 9 Av that year was the beginning of Russian
> mobilization.

True enough that the assassination had occurred over a month earlier -
it was June 28, which that year was the 4th of Tammuz.  However, the
actual declaration of war between Germany and Russia was indeed on Tisha
BeAv (August 1), and surely it's fair to consider that to be the start
of the war (particularly from a Jewish perspective, given that Russia
contained the largest Jewish population of any country at the time, a
population which was severely dislocated during WWI).

Incidentally, the beginning of Russian mobilization was a few days
earlier, July 29-30 (source: Barbara Tuchman, The Guns of August,
p. 72).

Kol tuv and happy Purim,


From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:18:25 +0200
Subject: Year in Israel

Honestly, I think that the kids are too young, and the programs are too
American.  For some it really is a very positive, maturing experience,
but others abuse the freedom or can't deal with it.  I also don't like
the fact that the kids are so isolated from "real Israel."  They don't
even need Hebrew.

I'm in favor of aliya and using the "year in Israel" to make the kids
feel part of the country, not apart from the country.  Though I'm not
naive and understand that American parents don't feel the same way.



From: <MosbacherB@...> (Bruce Eli Mosbacher)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:20:52 EST
Subject: Re: Yeshivah in Israel after High School

The one year experience that my son had at Yeshivat Ma'ale Gilboa last
year was an excellent preparation for college and life in all the areas
discussed. This may however be the result of the great respect shown by
the Yeshiva for the students and for an honest intellectual rigorous and
often academic approach to text study. It may also result from the
Israeli character of Yeshivat Ma'ale Gilboa; the program for chutnikim
is not the prime focus of the Yeshiva.

Bruce Eli Mosbacher
Chicago, Illinois USA

From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:44:44 -0600
Subject: Re: Yeshivah in Israel after High School

         I am sure you will get many "pro" positions, so, for a change
:-), here is my "con" position.  As an aside, it was not unheard of to
spend a year in israel even in my day after HS (early 70's), but because
i saw the way many of the boys came back (in my mind, more to the right
and seemingly unsure of themselves or what they wanted) I chose not to

         1. as implied above, many of the yeshivot try to give the kids
their hashkafa, which may be very different from yours

         2. the year away from academics can really hurt.

         3. i would rec. taking a year in Israel as a junior, with
college courses and learning.  this way people are more mature when they
do go, and don't lose out onthe academics.

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614
e-mail: <bkatz@...>


From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:43:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Yiddish in Federal Court

Prof. Aryeh Frimer posted a supposed motion in the case of Santiago
v. Sherwin-Williams.  The motion appears on a number of Jewish humor
websites.  The case is real.  Does anyone know if the motion was really
filed or is just a joke?

For real Yiddish in federal court, see the very funny article by
Professors Volokh and Kozinski at


End of Volume 47 Issue 40