Volume 49 Number 90
                    Produced: Tue Nov  8  6:07:30 EST 2005

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Avi Feldblum]
Good Intentions -- was separation of church & state
         [W. Baker]
HaKores HaTov
         [Carl Singer]
Having a baby on Shabbos/Yom Tov (2)
         [Harold Greenberg, Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz]
Importance of shomer shabbat ketubah witnesses
         [Stephen Phillips]
A mazal tov
         [Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz]
Mode of Dress and Tefilah
         [Mark Symons]
Seat belts and koved Av v'Aym
         [Jeanette Friedman]
See my shiny new bicycle (2)
         [Rose Landowne, Stuart Pilichowski]
Sefer Chafetz Chaim Calendar
         [Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz]


From: Avi Feldblum <mljewish@...>
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 05:42:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Administrivia

Good Morning, All,

Over the next few days, I will intersperse issues from submissions sent
since Sept 1 (about when the last sustained set of issues went out) with
issues from current submissions (I'll call that from Nov 1). Items that
were clearly time dependant (announcements of events etc) that are no
longer applicable will obviously not go out. I do still have a number of
emails that I have done a first read on, but are not in queue, and
hopefully over the next few days, I will either get them in the queue or
respond to the submitter.



From: W. Baker <wbaker@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 09:10:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Good Intentions -- was separation of church & state

> Janice Gelb  wrote
> Chanukah is a minor, non-Biblical holiday and ordinarily would be 
> celebrated at home as an inspirational holiday mainly geared toward 
> children. If you truly want us to educate non-Jews (and even 
> non-educated Jews) about Judaism, then we should emphasize our own 
> important holidays, not boost a more minor holiday just because it 
> happens to fall at the same time of year as someone else's major 
> holiday.

Because of the children, particularly Jewish children of other than
Orthodox Jews, it is important to have a public presence of Channukah to
counter the enormous impact of the Xmas season.  Even a chanukiah in the
corner of the toy store or drug store window indicates to the child that
hir holiday "counts" too in the place s/he lives.  When I was growing up
there was no such public demonstration of Channukah and we had a big
tree in my school tht we all helped decorate and a special assembly with
no indication of Channukah at all.  Fortunately, my family had a big
party at which all the married couples (my Mom was from a family of 9)
gave a gift to each child.  This meant that we all got a big pile of
presents that countered the big piles of presents tht the other,
non-Jewish children got and that we saw in magazines and movies (I was
a kid before TV). Many Jewish children did not have this and felt very
left out.

If we don't want the less observant children to feel marginalized in
their society (I speak of the US here), some public demonstration
acknowledging the Jewish holiday, no matter how tacky, is important.
Even the one Channukah song in the holiday assembly makes a difference
to public school kids.  We have to think beyond our own small group here
to consider the larger Jewish picture.

Another issue is that the non-Jewish world, who wishes us a happy
hannukah, is acknowledging that we have a holiday we are entitled to and
are not just a group of misanthropes who want to rain on the holidy

Wendy Baker-please excuse any tpos as I still am having vision problems.


From: <casinger@...> (Carl Singer)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:50:25 -0500
Subject: HaKores HaTov

I'm writing from Saint Louis -- on a business trip.  An old Army buddy
picked me up at the airport (he, like me a retired colonel - served in
the unit I commanded.)  Anyway -- to repay for the kindness I bought his
family dinner -- after an on-line search last week I found that there's
a milchig restaurant named Shmeers -- IT WAS OUTSTANDING!!!!  (Owner /
chef if a graduate of CIA - Culinary Institute of America) And although
their closing time is 8PM, we stayed on schmoosing 'til 9PM.  Just
thought I'd give them a free plug and publically say thank you for being
so accomodating.



From: Harold Greenberg <harold.greenberg@...>
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:04:40 +0200
Subject: Having a baby on Shabbos/Yom Tov

A few years back, an observant man drove his wife, who was in labour,
to the hospital here in Eilat late Friday night.  He took his wife into
the hospital, abandoning his car with the motor running and the
headlights on.  He did not advise hospital security of what he did.
Security notified the authorities, and at least 50 police and soldiers
responded to the emergency - thinking it was a car bomb, and violating
their Shabbat.

Please get the message out - if someone must abandon an automobile
because of shabbat/Yom Tov, advise Security.

 Zvi Greenberg
 Eilat, Israel

From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabba.hillel@...>
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 09:13:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Having a baby on Shabbos/Yom Tov

>From: Daniel Lowinger <Daniel.Lowinger@...>
>Just wandering if anyone knows what the halachot are regarding labour on
>Do you go to hospital by taxi or car? If taxi, how do you pay?  Is the
>husband allowed to carry a mobile/cell phone during the day to be
>contacted at shule? Is the wife allowed to pick the husband up from
>shule on the way to the hospital?
>What about being discharged from hospital. Are you allowed to be
>discharged on shabbos/Yom Tov. (most hospitals do not allow extra nights
>stay and it is not covered by insurance).




NIFTAR 23 OF AV 5953 

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore"
<Sabba.Hillel@...> | The fish are the Jews, Torah is our water


From: Stephen Phillips <admin@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 12:28:02 +0000
Subject: Re: Importance of shomer shabbat ketubah witnesses

> From: R Nudleman <sixcorners@...>
> I am doing research for a colleague of mine who is becoming more
> observant and is planning his wedding (several months away).  He wants
> to have a halakhic marriage ceremony, but his fiancee is not so happy
> about the idea that two shomer shabbat men are required sign the
> ketubah, since she has some non-observant Jewish friends that she wants
> to have sign it.  He has asked me what the implications would be for his
> marriage if the signers of his ketubah were not shomer shabbat...is the
> kedushin considered valid at all?  Is the marriage considered invalid?
> What negative effects would it have on his marriage in terms of halakhic
> status?  If the kedushin is invalid, what does this mean for him and his
> wife-to-be?  His potential children?  If the witnesses aren't shomer
> shabbat, is it better halakhically to have two non-observant Jewish
> males sign than two non-observant Jewish women?  Thank you in advance
> for your informed replies.

I think it is clear from the various Teshuvos in Igros Moshe on the
subject of Reform weddings that lack of Kosher witnesses renders the
Kiddushin invalid.

As to the validity of witnesses who aren't (say) shomer Shabbos, see
Even Ho'Ezer Siman 34:24.

In any event, your friend is not going to be able to have a proper
halachic ceremony without the assistance of a Rav who is expert in such
matters (see Even Ho'Ezer 49:3) and he undoubtedly will not permit
anyone but a kosher witness to sign.

As a piece of advice, what we did was to get the relevant [invalid]
relatives who wanted to be witnesses to sign the civil marriage

Stephen Phillips


From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabba.hillel@...>
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 09:02:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: A mazal tov

I wish to announce the birth and bris of Yitzchak Simchah Hocheimer, son
of Rabbi Mordechai and Mrs. Shira (Markowitz) Hochheimer of Rochester,
New York.  Rabbi Hochheimer is the new rav of Beth Haknesses Hechadash
(the St. Regis shul) in Rochester.  The shul is "only" 120 years old.

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore"
<Sabba.Hillel@...> | The fish are the Jews, Torah is our water


From: Mark Symons <msymons@...>
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 22:29:29 +1100
Subject: Re: Mode of Dress and Tefilah

> From: <ERSherer@...> (Robert Sherer)
>   As a practicing lawyer, I know that I would never appear in any court
> wearing shorts, sandals and no socks. Nor would I show up for a job
> interview so dressed. There's a practical reason for this. When I am
> addressing a court or a potential employer, I am trying to persuade the
> party so addressed to do something that I want him to do. I want him to
> listen to what I ask and hope he considers me favorably. I want him, in
> making his decision, to keep in mind what I said, not how I was dressed.
> If this applies to appearing before a judge or a potential employer,
> isn't the Being one addresses when going into a shul not entitled to the
> same respect?

Not according to your reasoning. You say/imply that your dressing in
this way before a judge or a potential employer is not out of respect,
but merely to increase the chances of getting them to do what you want.

Mark Symons


From: <FriedmanJ@...> (Jeanette Friedman)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 08:00:42 EST
Subject: Re: Seat belts and koved Av v'Aym

      > And if your (aged?) parent / grandparent refused to take their
      > medicine or go to the doctor would you simply acquiesce?

      Beyond trying to be persuasive ... what can you do?  Can you force
      a person to abide by the current medical wisdom against their
      feelings to the contrary?  There is an interesting precedent that
      one does not make someone fast who feels that he cannot do so
      safely (even, in my understanding, if a doctor feels that the fast
      can be done safely).

Here's what you do, (and we should have done this to my father-in-law,
who, at 66, died of heart failure for refusing to take his meds or see a
doctor) You commit that person to a mental institution in a court of law
so that he can be properly cared for.

Kowtow to whims? This is an issue of Pikuach Nefesh. As far as I am
concerned, my fil committed suicide because no one wanted to rock the
boat and make him feel bad, so we let him die out of stupidity and
ignorance. What a freaking waste! He never even got to see his only
grandson, who was born 6 months later.



From: <ROSELANDOW@...> (Rose Landowne)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 07:20:30 EST
Subject: Re: See my shiny new bicycle

      If a young child came up to me and said, "the brocha for an apple
      is 'boray pree ha'eytz'" I'd praise them and perhaps ask them why
      or what other brochas they know.  I could see replying similarly
      to an SMSNB comment, but was wondering what others thought would
      be an appropriate response, (1) to an information only or (2) to a
      you're doing it wrong statement from (especially) a stranger.

      Carl Singer

A simple, "Thank you, it's always good to remember that.", will get you
out of the situation without extending the confrontation.

Rose Landowne

From: Stuart Pilichowski <cshmuel@...>
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:52:59 +0000
Subject: re: See my shiny new bicycle

I don't know anyone that would agree with anyone "who publicly scolded"
anyone. What are we coming to? Do we need to offer classes in

I know in Israeli society one of the major problems is how the
non-observant view the observant. In many cases utter disgust is an
understatement. What's sad is that in many cases the "chiloni"
(non-observant) is justified in their attitudes because of more than a
few sad incidents that are clearly in the realm of chillul hashem.

I'm personally proud to live in an apt building where we're the only
kippah wearing, shomer shabbat, observant family. In the short time
we've lived here we've shown that one can be observant and not a
fanatic; you can be "religious" and be nice and not meshugah.

Too many families live in all religious areas and never see a chiloni or
ever have any impact on the non-observant.

Are they fearful their beliefs and Torah will not stand up to the 
temptations of a non-observant lifestyle?

Why can't we live and let live? Why can't we respect others?

Stuart Pilichowski
Mevaseret Zion, Israel


From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabba.hillel@...>
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 09:20:02 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Sefer Chafetz Chaim Calendar

>From: Asher Breatross <ash002@...>
>Would anyone know where on the Internet I could find a calendar for
>learning Sefer Chafetz Chaim and Sefer Shmiras HaLashon on a daily


Chofetz Chaim: A Lesson A Day and Chofetz Chaim: A Daily Companion can
be used to participate in Shmiras Haloshon Yomi. Learning the laws of
proper speech every day, in small portions, is the method that the
Chofetz Chaim recommended for observing this crucial mitzvah. The Torah
tells us that Shmiras Haloshon is a limitless source of blessing for
ourselves, an essential element in our prayers being accepted, and the
most effective way to merit Hashem's mercy.

Daily Learning Calendar
This free daily learning calendar created by the Manchester Rosh
Yeshivah, zt"l is already used by thousands to participate in the
program by learning the Chofetz Chaim's original work in Hebrew or Guard
Your Tongue in English.

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore"
<Sabba.Hillel@...> | The fish are the Jews, Torah is our water


End of Volume 49 Issue 90