Volume 50 Number 73
                    Produced: Sun Dec 25  7:54:36 EST 2005

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Abba / Ima , etc.
         [Carl A. Singer]
Any experience with hagalah tanks for pesach?
         [Daniel Nachman]
Birkat Kohanim at a Chuppah AND Brit - and other Edot Mizrach
         [Shoshana L. Boublil]
Giving Tzedaka during Tefila
         [Avraham Etzion]
Halachik Sources for Proper Behavior in Schools
         [Batya Medad]
Is the Torah sufficient to prevent crime?
         [Carl A. Singer]
         [Nathan Lamm]
Mattityahu = Kohen Gadol?
         [Lisa Liel]
Other Types of Kashrut Certificates
         [Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz]
         [Aryeh Gielchinsky]
Sephardic customs
The shtrayml--again
         [N Miller]
so what is the Biblical Hebrew for 'slave'?


From: Carl A. Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:00:42 -0500
Subject: Abba / Ima , etc.

Dear friends of ours just became grandparents - -their oldest son (a
kindergarten classmate of OUR oldest son) just became a father.

Curious, because of the recent MJ postings, I asked what they wanted to
be called.  It turns out there is an asymmetry -- for a simple reason it
turns out:

The new father wants to be called "Abba" and the new mother, "Mommy"

WHY -- very simple -- it turns out that's what he calls his father and
what she calls her mother.  So a merger of two different naming
conventions resulted in a hybrid.

Carl Singer 


From: Daniel Nachman <lhavdil@...>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 19:50:29 -0600
Subject: Any experience with hagalah tanks for pesach?

If anyone here has had experience with building and/or managing a
community hagala tank for kashering utensils for pesach, I would be very
interested in hearing from you.  Our shul is investigating the

Never having done this before, I'd be interested in the enginering
aspects (how does one build or buy or rent such an apparatus?), in the
practicalities of operating it (do you need to keep adding boiling water
as the tank boils down?  and what kind of safety measures should be in
place?), in policy (what do you do if someone brings a utensil that the
attendant thinks cannot halachically be kashered?), and in the
insurance/liability aspect.  Whatever info you might be able to provide
will be greatly appreciated.

D. Nachman


From: Shoshana L. Boublil <toramada@...>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 17:30:35 +0200
Subject: Re: Birkat Kohanim at a Chuppah AND Brit - and other Edot Mizrach

> From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
> Deborah Wenger writes of the Edot Mizrach custom of Birkat Kohanim after
> the Chuppah by the Kohanim present.
> I just got back from an Edot Mizrach Brit Milah, where at the end all
> the Kohanim were invited to recite Birkat Kohanim over the child.

In Sephardi communities, Birkat Kohanim is very important.  Actually, if
no Kohanim are present, there are situations where the Rabbi(s) is asked
to say the Birkat Kohanim.

For example, part of the ancient custom at the Zeved HaBat is that
Birkat Kohanim is said over the newborn girl.  The mothers of the family
are called over to hold and place their hands over here head in blessing
and a Kohein or rabbi recites the Birkat Kohanim out loud.

> Interestingly enough (and this differs from the Ashenazic practice with
> which I am familiar), when the child was named, the name given was in
> the form of "child's- name, son of father's- name and mother's-name."
> I've never heard of the mother's name used in this context (although the
> mother does have "something" to do with the child's being there).

In another context, it is the custom of many Sephardim that when they
say the Zimmun, they specifically mention not only "Ba'al HaBayit" but
also "Ba'alat HaBayit".

Shoshana L. Boublil


From: Avraham Etzion <atzion@...>
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:34:47 +0200
Subject: Re: Giving Tzedaka during Tefila

           Same idea is found in Minhag Ari to say Hineni Muchan Lkayem
Mitzvat Veohavto Lereacho Komoicho!Tefila before the davening is thus a
Mitzva not only between man and god but also between man and man. It is
also based on the Pasuk Vani betzedek Echeze Panecha


From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:45:44 +0200
Subject: Halachik Sources for Proper Behavior in Schools

I'm a BT public school girl from the repressed and surpressed 1950's and
'60's.  And now I'm a female teacher in a YESHIVA high school, so I'm a
3rd class member of the staff, at best.  There are a number of things
that bother me, and I know that the only way I can really influence
things would be to bring halachik sources.  So I'd like some help.

Issue number 1 is the status of the teachers room; read:

And the second subject I'd like help with is school property, meaning is
it permitted to damage school desks etc?  And also how much dirt, food,
etc can be lying all over the place?

And last is the status of the "teacher's chair."  Is there anything
similar to the status of the "father's chair?"

http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/  http://shilohpics.blogspot.com/
http://me-ander.blogspot.com/       http://samizdatblogfree.blogspot.com/


From: Carl A. Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:54:53 -0500
Subject: Is the Torah sufficient to prevent crime?

Is the purpose of the Torah to prevent crime?  Especially crime by
people who don't abide by Torah laws.

When I read of someone stealing silver from a shul, I don't think twice.
But when I read of someone stealing a Sefer Torah -- it gives me pause.

Carl Singer


From: Nathan Lamm <nelamm18@...>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 06:01:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Juries

There's an interesting story in the latest National Geographic (January
2006 issue): Monroeville, Alabama, hometown of Harper Lee, puts on
productions of To Kill a Mockingbird every year, and sometimes takes the
show on the road. Once, they performed in Jerusalem, and the jury, made
up of members of the audience, refused to convict Tom Robinson. The
actor playing the sheriff had to argue with them that they had to- it
was part of the story.

Not really relevant to halakha, but interesting.

Nachum Lamm


From: Lisa Liel <lisa@...>
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:03:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Mattityahu = Kohen Gadol?

From: David Curwin <tobyndave@...>

> I went to a shiur this week by a leading expert on Bayit Sheni.  He
> described the historical period before, during and after the story of
> Chanuka. He mentioned that until the Hasmonean revolt, the kohen gadol
> had come from the house of Tzadok. Matityahu's son Yonatan was became
> the first Hasmonean to take the role of kohen gadol. This seems to be
> well backed up by the various historical sources I could find.

Really?  I understood that Yehudah was made Kohen Gadol as soon as
Yerushalayim was retaken and the Mikdash purified.  And that Yonatan
became Kohen Gadol only after Yehudah was killed.

> However, in the Al HaNisim prayer we say that Mattityahu was a kohen
> gadol. How does that fit in with our historical understanding of the
> time?

Al HaNissim doesn't say that Mattitiyahu was a Kohen Gadol.  It does say
that he was the son of a Kohen Gadol.  It can actually be read either
way, but I don't believe there's any source that says Mattitiyahu was a
Kohen Gadol.



From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabba.hillel@...>
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 06:57:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Other Types of Kashrut Certificates

> From: David Curwin <tobyndave@...>
> The discussion of other types of kashrut certificates interested me.
> At first I agreed with the poster who said that it wasn't
> necessary. Whether we say food is kosher or not is not the only
> determinant as to whether we can eat it. That steak might have every
> hechsher, badatz, glatt, etc, but you still can't eat it on Yom
> Kippur!  So obviously there are other considerations in halacha
> besides "pure kashrut".

> However, that seems to ignore a major point. We don't eat fish with
> meat because of a danger viewed at the time, and view it as a kashrut
> issue. And even though many Achronim admit that the risk is no longer
> prevalent
> ( http://www.ou.org/torah/tt/5761/vaera61/specialfeatures.htm ) in
> general we still follow the prohibition. How much more so should the
> rabbis be concerned about proven health issues today! And while some
> health issues may be still under discussion, those that would seem to
> pose a clear risk should certainly warrant the removal of the
> hechsher.

> Additionally, someone asked about a hechsher for treatment of
> employees.  There is an organization in Israel that does this, and you
> can read about them (and articles by rabbis supporting them) here:
> http://www.mtzedek.org.il

There are several ideas expressed in this that should be addressed.  If
there is a definite health issue so that the item is a definite danger,
then the medical authorities should ban it.  It is not the function of
the kashrus organization to assume that something is or is not dangerous
because of publicity or scare tactics.  Thus, if the medical authorities
or the government do not consider something "dangerous", then how can
the kashrus organization do so.

Secondly, when talking about sakannah (as with fish and meat or smoking)
the halacha is clear that this is not a matter of kashrus but a matter
of health.  The halachos involved are totally different.  Consider the
idea of bitul (nullification), kashering silverware that has become
treif, etc.

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore"
<Sabba.Hillel@...> | The fish are the Jews, Torah is our water


From: Aryeh Gielchinsky <agielchinsky@...>
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 14:14:59 -0500
Subject: Rashbam

We have been discussing whether pasukim have only one meaning or a
few. The earliest source I could find was this. Kiddushin 80a two lines
after the Gemarah starts the Gemarah asks "Where do we find a Biblical
hint to Yichud"? then the Gemarah quotes and pasuk, and then the gemarah
asks "Pashtiya dikra bimiay kisiv?" which means "what is the simple
meaning of the verse(that was just quoted)" implying that there is a
simple level to understand each pasuk and a deeper level to understand
each pasuk.

Aryeh Gielchinsky
President of the Yeshiva University Physics and Engineering Club, retired


From: <aliw@...> (Arie)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 14:48:22 +0200
Subject: Re: Sephardic customs

in MJ 50/71, Joseph Mosseri wrote:

> As far as the custom of saying birkat Kohanim at a berit milah 
>that was described by Shemuel Himelstein, I've never seen such 
>a thing.

i think that's all it is - a nice "thing". but it's a catching thing. i
don't remeber a brit that i've been to in the last five or six years
where it was NOT done. the available cohanim come to the newly "malled"
child porsim alav yadayim (the spread their open hands over him) and
they recite the birkat kohanim.  nice.



From: N Miller <nmiller@...>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 14:53:22 -0500
Subject: The shtrayml--again

Yossi Ginzberg writes:

	there was an emphasis on dressing differently from the non-Jews,
	making it unlikely that they would copy a totally gentile style
	of dress, noble or not.  Particularly if you consider that
	Chassidus stresses so much it's adherence to old style, it is
	hard to believe that a voluntary adaptation of such a style
	could occur.  It would be akin to a Rebbe of today starting to
	wear a tuxedo, something that presumably cannot happen.

This is one of those Topics That Don't Go Away (another is the Hebrew
origin of just about any English word that strikes your fancy).  And
it's true that I never saw an O rov in a tuxedo.  But I have a clear
memory of a picture of Rav Gurari of Lubavitch all togged out in proper
afternoon formal wear on his arrival in the US along with his
father-in-law the Rebbe.  It's true that there's also a tradition of
dressing differently (the President of Iran honors a similar tradition
by refusing to wear a tie) but in fact that tradition has over the
centuries been worn down by the dress-British-speak-Yiddish trend which
not only explains Rav Gurari but also Reb Borekhl with his chariot and
team of white horses.

Noyekh Miller


From: .cp. <chips@...>
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 20:36:04 -0800
Subject: so what is the Biblical Hebrew for 'slave'?

I'm watching 'Bible Battles' on History Channel, pretty much as a
lark. Sometimes I get interested in the blinders that others wear, spurs
review of learning in my mind (and sometimes get me to lookup) and once
in a great while I hear an idea that I can develop without resorting to
ignoring the Torah.

Anyway, "Exodus" comes up and an expert is shown saying that the word
`avodym` does not mean 'slave' but only 'worker'. This just puzzles me -
what then is the word for slave ?


End of Volume 50 Issue 73