Volume 50 Number 91
                    Produced: Wed Jan  4  5:48:27 EST 2006


Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Chinuch field query
         [Paul Shaviv]
Kiddushin (3)
         [Janice Gelb, Asher Grossman, Martin Stern]
Kiddushin - Chuppas Niddah
         [Stephen Phillips]
Latecomer's "Hoiche Kedushah"
         [Akiva Miller]
The loud kedusah
         [Baruch J. Schwartz]


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From: Paul Shaviv <pshaviv@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 09:38:16 -0500
Subject: Chinuch field query

Ref: Chinuch Field query

1.	What are Principals looking for:

You will want to satisfy yourself that the candidate is personable, has
integrity, and is an educational personality and either has, or can
acquire, the qualities and skills of a successful teacher. At a
professional level, the teacher has to have the required depth of
knowledge. (From: The Principal's Guide to the Jewish High School -
forthcoming).

2.	What is it like to be a Rebbe in today^s classroom?

Depends on you and depends on the school. If you are a professional
teacher, able to apply the craft of the profession to teaching your
subject (whether Talmud or physics) your classroom will be a highly
rewarding place in every way. If your school is run professionally, and
is interested in your development as a Rebbe/teacher, you will grow over
the years both professionally and personally.

3.	Finances:

Varies from school to school.  The best schools will offer contracts (in
some places with tenure); salaries comparable to the public system;
health care and pension; and will give you a reasonable teaching
load. In return they will expect thoroughly professional performance.
Salaries of senior posts in Jewish schools in N America are very high,
which is a function of supply and demand.  Your ability to command a
higher salary is very closely linked to your qualifications, training
and experience, as well as - naturally - your ability.

4.	Impact on family life?

If you are happy in your work, and feel that you are doing something
worthwhile, and are seeing educational and spiritual success with your
students - your family can only benefit.  Your income may be less than
some others in the community (although in some places - Toronto is a
good example - it may well be a good middle-class salary). If you are
unhappy - even if you are in another, high-earning profession - your
family will be miserable. As a (presumably) would-be Rebbe, I assume you
know the words of Avot in this respect.

5.	ADVICE:

I don't know who you are or how old you are. If you can, get a teaching
training and qualification (B. Ed or equivalent).  It will make you a
much better Rebbe.  Whether you can or you can't, seek to get work in
the most professionally-run school or Yeshivah that you can find, where
the Administration are genuinely interested in education and in their
students as individuals.  Do not be impatient and expect promotion
before you have put in a number of years in the classroom.  Read widely,
including books on education and teaching techniques.  Care for your
students, and respect them as individuals.

Good luck!

Paul Shaviv
Director of Education
Community Hebrew Academy of Toronto

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From: Janice Gelb <j_gelb@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:57:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Kiddushin

Nathan Lamm <nelamm18@...> wrote:
> The only doubt that arises in my mind is the fact that there's no actual
> yichud if the bride is a niddah.  Why? The couple will be alone together
> when she is a niddah in the future.

I've always wondered how this works in practice. I knjow people try to
time it but that can't always work. How does one account for the lack of
yichud as for tznius reasons if nothing else one does not want it
"advertised" that the bride is a niddah.

-- Janice

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From: Asher Grossman <asherg@...>
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 00:51:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Kiddushin

In 50/88 Nathan Lamm writes:
> There's a common belief that the Yichud room has something
> to do with sexual relations. This is incorrect: It is symbolic of the
> couple beginning life as a household.

While this is true, the witnesses must remain and observe that the
couple remains in the room for an amount of time, "sufficient for Biah
to have occurred".

> Of course, what the couple does in the room is their own business, but
> I don't believe the witnesses have to have in mind that they are
> getting intimate.

While no one really expects the couple to be getting intimate, the
"setting up a household" includes being intimate. Therefore we need to
allow them enough time to do so - if they wish. Of course, the
Halachically allotted time takes into consideration only the act itself,
not what may lead to it, and as such is more symbolic than practical.

> The only doubt that arises in my mind is the fact that there's no
> actual yichud if the bride is a niddah.  Why? The couple will be alone
> together when she is a niddah in the future.

This is an open Halachah, which takes things further by stating that if
the bride is a niddah the couple may not be meyached until she goes to
the Mikveh. The rationale to this, (and also the answer to Nathan's
question), is that the couple may not control themselves, in their
desire to consummate their marriage, and forget that she is a
niddah. Once they have been intimate with each other, the lust and
desire is not so strong anymore, and they will be able to control
themselves. This is the "Pas BeSalo" concept ("bread in the basket" or
an assured thing). A couple knows that they will be able to be together
at the right time, but the newlyweds, never having experienced the
togetherness, may not be able to wait.

Asher Grossman
<asherg@...>

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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 13:53:36 +0000
Subject: Re: Kiddushin

on 3/1/06 11:15 am, Nathan Lamm <nelamm18@...> wrote:

> Martin Stern states that yichud is an aspect of the two witnesses
> "observing" kiddushei biah. I believe he is incorrect:
> 
> There are three ways of performing Kiddushin/Erusin- Kesef, Shtar,
> Biah. Chazal strongly discouraged the last, and we don't really know how
> to do it by Shtar.  Our only form of Kiddushin these days is by Kesef
> (specifically, a ring, although it need not be so).
> 
> Nisuin is performed by a couple setting up a household
> together. Originally, this was quite literal: After a year or so of
> Erusin, they would literally walk into their new house. Nowadays, we
> have symbolic houses at the ceremony: The Chuppa, a Tallis, the Yichud
> room.  We do all three to fulfill all opinions. There's a common belief
> that the Yichud room has something to do with sexual relations. This is
> incorrect: It is symbolic of the couple beginning life as a household.
> Of course, what the couple does in the room is their own business, but I
> don't believe the witnesses have to have in mind that they are getting
> intimate. If so, the marriage of a few of my friends who I've served as
> an Eid Yichud for would be invalid, chas v'shalom.

Many thanks for correcting me.

> The only doubt that arises in my mind is the fact that there's no actual
> yichud if the bride is a niddah.  Why? The couple will be alone together
> when she is a niddah in the future.

Chazal prohibited yichud with one's own wife when she is a niddah before
the be'ilat mitsvah. The rationale, if I am not mistaken, is that they
assessed that an average man would not be able to resist his yetser
hara' before having at least once enjoyed marital relations with her and
would, therefore, be highly likely to transgress the issur karet.

Martin Stern

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From: Stephen Phillips <admin@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:37:46 +0000
Subject: Re: Kiddushin - Chuppas Niddah

> The only doubt that arises in my mind is the fact that there's no actual
> yichud if the bride is a niddah.  Why? The couple will be alone together
> when she is a niddah in the future.

We are concerned that a Chosson who has not performed Biah at all with
his Kallah will not be able to overcome his Yetzer [inclination] (see
Kesuvos 4a), which is not the case if he already has performed Biah
(otherwise every husband would have to completely live apart from his
wife when she is a Niddah).

Stephen Phillips

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From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:41:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Latecomer's "Hoiche Kedushah"

An extremely important point has been omitted from most of the posts on
this topic: definition of terms

Having a minimum of 6 people who have not yet davened is a requirement
for saying a full chazaras hashatz, i.e., a full out-loud repetition of
all the blessings of the Amidah (Shmoneh Esreh).

That is NOT what happens at a Hoiche (or Heiche) Kedushah.

A Hoiche Kedushah is NOT a full repetition. It is a way for a person to
hear/say Kedusha even though he missed the shul's Repetition. It works
even if everyone else has already said the Amidah, and has already heard
Kedusha and the Repetition, but he does need 9 people to listen and
respond to what he is doing.

This is how it works: An individual begins his Amidah, but instead of
saying it silently, he says it aloud. He says the whole first bracha
aloud, and at least 9 people answer Amen to his "Magen Avraham". Then he
says the whole second bracha aloud, and they answer Amen to his
"Mechayeh Hameisim". Then he says the third bracha aloud, but NOT the
version that he'd use if he was saying it silently. Instead, he uses the
version that he'd use if he was a regular Shliach Tzibur saying a
regular Repetition; this version includes Kedusha, which he leads and
the other people answer, AS IF it was a regular Repetition (which it
isn't). When he gets to the end and says "Ha-E-l HaKadosh", they all
respond Amen. Finally, he continues with the rest of his prayer
silently, and the others get on with their business.

Akiva Miller

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From: Baruch J. Schwartz <schwrtz@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:22:13 +0200
Subject: The loud kedusah

Regarding the "loud kedushah" and similar practices, there are several
different situations. These are the ones I have been able to find in the
sources. None of them corresponds exactly to the case being discussed
lately on mj, i.e. that of someone coming late and making his own
kedushah after everyone else has davened and heard hazarat
hasha"tz. This probably indicates, as others have already said, that it
is not an acceptable instance of "loud kedushah".

1. Group decision to say loud kedushah because they simply don't feel
like saying the entire amida and then repeating it all aloud:  not
acceptable; see MB124:6 and authorities quoted in fn 7.

2. Sheliah tzibbur arrived and found that the tzibbur, assuming no
sheliah tzibbur would arrive, had already said the silent amida: He is
exempt from saying the silent amida entirely. He immediately says the
first two brachot aloud and everyone listens and says amen, responds to
his kedushah, says amen to ha-el hakadosh; he continues aloud; OH 124:2
and MB ad loc. This never happens in modern times, because there are no
ten Jews prepared to admit that none of them knows how to daven aloud
and that they must simply pray without a prayer leader. But a similar
case can, and does, happen in our times: the tzibbur said the silent
amida with Plony leading the service up to that point. Almony, who is an
avel or has yahrzeit, shows up afterward and wants to take over. He may
do so immediately and doesn't have to say the silent amida; Ishei
Yisrael 24:9 and references.

3. Group decision to say loud kedushah because of serious lack of time:
hazzan says first two brachot aloud everyone else reciting with him
silently, then join for kedushah and recite with him until ha-el
haqadosh. (MB 124:9 comments that they should say le-dor vador and not
atah kadosh; see also Ishei Yisrael 24:10 fn 41 and 33:3 fn. 20.) [Rema
124:2; MB 124:7] In this case it's advisable for at least one person not
to pray first three brachot with the hazzan, so he can say amen to
them. Rema 124:2.(MB 124:10--the one saying amen can also be a minor).

4. Group decision to say loud kedushah because of less serious lack of
time. This method is preferable to the above [except in the view of the
Kaf Ha-hayyim 124:10 who likes the first method better], if a few more
minutes remain: hazzan says first two brachot aloud, everyone else
stands silently and says amen to his brachot, joins for kedushah
responses, listens until ha-el haqadosh, says amen. Hazzan continues
from there silently, everyone else starts from the beginning. [MB 124:8;
Arukh Hashulhan 232:6]

Note: MB 124:7 explains that technically the last two are operative
either at shaharit or minha, but in Biur Halachah he says that in his
own opinion this is ok at minha only; at shaharit the lack of time
doesn't matter and you pray a full tefillah with hazarah.

5. Group decision to say loud kedushah because they are unruly and not
even ten of them can be counted on to listen attentively to the
repetition and say amen. Same as #4 (Arukh Hashulhan 232:7--emphasizing
however that whenever possible a full tefillah and repetition is
preferable; 232:3).

6. Individual came late to davening and wants to catch up (the rest of
the tzibbur all said a regular silent amida). Preferable method: he
waits for the hazzan to begin hazarat hasha"tz, responds with the rest
of the tzibbur to kedushah, and then starts silently from the
beginning--hopefully finishing in time to respond amen to shomea
tefillah, to modim, etc. Rema 109:2.

7. Same as above. Less preferable method, but necessary if the hazzan is
already about to start hazarat hasha"tz. He says beginning of amida with
hazzan, responds to kedushah, recites until ha-el hakadosh with hazzan,
and continues silently (at his own speed, so he can say modim with the
tzibbur, or together with the hazzan, if he's a slowpoke anyhow). OH
109.  MB 109:2 (see also Beer Hetev) mentions ledor vador specifically,
meaning that in his opinion atah kadosh is preempted.

8. There was no minyan and everyone davened by himself, and then a tenth
man shows up. He then says the first two brachot aloud and everyone
listens and says amen, responds to his kedushah, says amen to ha-el
hakadosh and leaves. He continues silently. This is what they called
pores al shema; OH 69:1. In this context Arukh Hashulhan 69:9 says that,
if davening nusah Ashkenaz, the person should say atah kadosh and not
ledor vador, since the latter was instituted only for an actual tefillah
of the shat"z and this is really the tefillah of the yahid. I was unable
to find any mention of this in connection with the lack-of-time
situation. See Ishei Yisrael 34:2 fn 8, who makes this precise
distinction and refers us to a number of views, among them, the view
that pores al shema is exactly the same as hazarat hasha"tz and he
should say ledor vador--since it is the direct continuation of the
kedushah that has been said, and atah kadosh is not.

Baruch

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End of Volume 50 Issue 91