Volume 51 Number 14
                    Produced: Sun Jan 29 11:55:41 EST 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Avel during shloshim not eating meat (5)
         [Gershon Dubin, Martin Stern, Batya Medad, Avraham Etzion, Jack
Kos shel Kiddushin/Nisuin
         [Martin Dauber]
Kosher Dr. Seuss
         ["Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz"]
Kosher in Chinese
         [Jay F Shachter]
         [Leah S. Gordon]
Reasons for not saying Tachanun
Survey Result


From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 22:51:05 -0500
Subject: Avel during shloshim not eating meat

on 27/1/06 11:08 am, <Danmim@...> wrote:
> someone mentioned that an avel for a parent is not allowed to eat meat
> or poultry during shloshim. Did you ever see a source for this minhag?

Considering that an avel is permitted to eat meat during shiva, this
sounds like a strange, more likely simply erroneous, practice.


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 11:50:47 +0000
Subject: Re: Avel during shloshim not eating meat

It is a minhag shtut (a custom with no basis) and should be
discontinued.  Only an onen, someone in the period between death and
burial of a close relative, is prohibited from eating meat (and drinking
wine), as detailed in Orach Chaim 341,1, and even then this prohibition
is waived on Shabbat and Yom Tov.

Martin Stern

From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:54:50 +0200
Subject: Re: Avel during shloshim not eating meat

Strange one.  The Eidot Mizrach would starve.  Some have major "feasts"
every night and minimally at the end of shiva, at shloshim etc.

http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/ ; http://me-ander.blogspot.com/         
http://samizdatblogfree.blogspot.com/ ; http://shilohpics.blogspot.com/   

From: Avraham Etzion <atzion@...>
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 08:56:31 +0200
Subject: Re: Avel during shloshim not eating meat

There is no isssur to eat meat or drink wine during avelut! As a matter
of fact the minhag of Yemenites is that the people coming to confort the
Avelim bring meat.Likewise during the Nine Days of Av all the Meforshim
make it clear that Minhag not to eat meat is not because of avelut- but
to remember the scarifices!

From: Jack Gross <jbgross@...>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:30:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Avel during shloshim not eating meat

There is a restriction on meat and wine before the burial is completed
(during "Onenus"); there is no such restriction thereafter, even during


From: Martin Dauber <mhdauber@...>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:42:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Kos shel Kiddushin/Nisuin

 Yossi Ginzberg brings the Igros Moshe :

>Siman 195 in the Ram'a ........
>He continues that if others are present and drinking from the same cup,
>she can pass it on, but if no one else will drink it she should finish
>it to prevent the husband from doing so.

In practically all cases of Kos shel B'racha there is a halachic
requirement to "drink" its contents.  The definition of drink is
strictly stipulated based on situation.  In most cases it is M'lo lugmav
(enough to fill the bulging cheeks, or about 1.6 fl oz), though in some
cases (Pesach seder) the requirement is more than half of the volume of
the cup.

I have been to hundreds of weddings and have seen neither Kos "drunk".
Are these Kosos exempt ?  Clearly, neither the Casan nor Kallah "drink "
it. Any ideas ?

moshe tzvi dauber, md


From: "Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz" <sabbahillel@...>
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:27:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Kosher Dr. Seuss

I found this on the internet and have permission to send it out

> From: "J J Levin" <jjle...@...>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish.moderated


The National Education Association is celebrating "Read Across America"
by encouraging adults to read to children. Of course, Green Eggs and Ham
is one of the most popular Dr. Seuss books. And, there's the
dilemma. How can Jewish kids celebrate with green Eggs and HAM? So, in
honor of (and with apologies to the estate of Dr. Seuss) here's a new
ending for the story:

Will you never see?
They are not KOSHER, So let me be!
I will not eat green eggs and ham.
I will not eat them, Sam-I-am
But I'll eat green eggs with a biscuit!
Or I will try them with some brisket.
I'll eat green eggs in a box.
If you serve them with some lox.
And those green eggs are worth a try
Scrambled up in matzo brie!
And in a boat upon the river,
I'll eat green eggs with chopped liver!
So if you're a Jewish Dr. Seuss fan,
But troubled by green eggs and ham,
Let your friends in on the scoop:
Green eggs taste best with chicken soup!

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore"
<Sabba.Hillel@...> | The fish are the Jews, Torah is our water


From: Jay F Shachter <jay@...>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:43:50 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Kosher in Chinese

In v52n13 Andy Goldfinger wrote:
> The Star-K web site has a section for the Far East.  On this page:
> http://www.star-k.com/fe-videos.htm
> there are two videos in Chinese.  In the first one, Rabbi Akiva Pearlman
> discusses "What is Kosher?"
> I have listened to this presentation, and since I don't speak Chinese, I
> could understand none of it except the part in which he breaks up the
> word "Kosher" into "Ko" and "Sher,"  apparently giving some Chinese
> meanings to these terms.  I asked a colleague of mine, who is Chinese, to
> listen to this, and this is what he wrote:
> "By the way, the man Chinese video was talking about Kosher.  He broke
> it down into "Ko" "Sher" because he was saying Ko means mouth, and Sher
> means along the lines of agreement, or good taste.  So Kosher translates
> into "good taste for the mouth", or something close to that meaning."

I don't know what dialect of Chinese Rabbi Pearlman was speaking, but it
is impossible for a word to end in /r/ in any dialect of Chinese that I
am familiar with.  Perhaps there are Sinologists on this mailing list
who can comment further.

Jay F. ("Yaakov") Shachter
Chicago IL  60645-4111


From: Leah S. Gordon <leah@...>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 05:52:26 -0800
Subject: Marriage/Dress

>>>daughters-in-law, making a point of insisting even if the kalla's
>>>family hadn't known of its importance.  She says that yichud changes
>>>the status
>>Um...I'm not sure I know *any* brides who reliably go along with their
>>future-MIL's opinions for dress.   ;) 
>This isn't a "dress" opinion; it's a halachik issue.  If the bride has
>trouble with the chatan family's psak, she has no chance of a happy
>marriage.  Of course all families are different, but I'm referring to a
>specific one which is very "chardal."

But Batya, that is much too simplistic.  Many times, parents and their
children do not see eye-to-eye on every "psak" issue.  This is one on
which reasonable Orthodox people/sources seem to disagree.  So my point
stands, and I would not be surprised to see some daughter-in-law
rebellion.  I hardly think that not wanting to listen to a MIL on this
would lead to "no chance of a happy marriage".



From: <aliw@...> (Arie)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 22:23:25 +0200
Subject: Re: Reasons for not saying Tachanun

in MJ 51/12, IRA L. JACOBSON  quoted:
> (Arie) stated the following:
> To Ira - also Av Harachamim before Musaf is an indicator of yes
> or no tachanun.
   and noted:
>I used to think that also.  It is often not said on such an occasion,
>but not always.

Ramoh, on o"h 284/7 says that it is the custom to say Av harachamim
after yekum purkan, but on days when you would not say tachanun during a
weekday, you don't say it, nor when there is a wedding or a brit. he
continues to say that there are places where Av harachamim is not said
on shabbat mevorchin (like this morning) other than during the sefira,
and this should follow the custom.



From: <slefkowitz@...>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:07:53 -0500
Subject: Survey Result

In an earlier post I asked members to respond to 2 survey questions.
There was limited response, but FWIW, here  is result.

 1. What is average length of Shabbos morning service?


2h   32 m

2h   30 m

2h   30 m

2h   0   m

3h   0   m

 1. What is Rabbi's salary?

Insufficient response to be meaningful


End of Volume 51 Issue 14