Volume 51 Number 44
                    Produced: Sun Mar  5  9:08:58 EST 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Change in Kashrut policy
         [Lawrence Feldman]
Counting for the minyan
Hakhel Email Community Awareness Bulletin-
How to Pasken (Decide) a question
         [Stu Pilichowski]
Jewish vs. non-Jewish calendars (was valentine's day)
         [Asher Grossman]
kosher mcDonald's
         [Batya Medad]
         [Carl A. Singer]
Paid  Kaddish Services
         [Ira L. Jacobson]
         [Joel Rich]
Rabosay . . . . . mihr velen NIT bentchin
         [Carl A. Singer]
Reading Aloud Of The Ten Sons Of Haman.
         [Immanuel Burton]
Sources: Rollerblades on Shabbat
         [Daniel Nachman]
Zeved HaBat
         [Martin Stern]


From: Lawrence Feldman <lpf1836@...>
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 04:42:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: re: Change in Kashrut policy

Shmuel Himelstein concludes his posting in kashrut certification:

>so that we can enjoy Aroma coffee in Jerusalem, without having to drive
>to Mevaseret Tziyon to do so.

As it so happens, Aroma was described in a recent newspaper article as
having "employment practices that, at times, smack of exploitation"


My question for the list is: should we as observant Jews avoid kosher
establishments that in other ways have problematic business practices?
It might be worth mentioning that a Jerusalem organization whose
founders are religious has begun awarding what roughly translates as
"social-consciousness certification" ('tav-teken chevrati') to eateries
that treat workers fairly and provide convenient access to the

Lawrence Feldman


From: Anonymous
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:58:23
Subject: Counting for the minyan

At our "office" minyan today we had an interesting situation.  One of
our regulars was waiting out in the hallway rather than the room where
we daven.  When a 10th person showed up, he remained out there.  Not
until an 11th came (3 minutes later) did he enter so we could begin
davening.  We had a "new" attendee with us today which apparently was
the root cause of this situation.  It turns out that the "waiter" will
not count a non-frum Jew (whatever that means) as part of a minyan so he
waited outside to keep us from having ten with this other (new attendee)
Jew counting.  [I've seen similar situations before, but only when there
was a question of whether this "9th" person was in Cherem.]  I was
worried that this situation, if not properly "disguised" could greatly
embarrass the "9th" -- as it was the "waiter" pretended to be fielding a
cellphone call.

How do others handle this -- especially to avoid embarassing someone.
Also, what is the assumption when a stranger walks into the minyan -- do
we assume he's Jewish, frum, non-Jewish, non-frum -- or do we somehow
evaluate him based on appearance and manerisms -- this is clearly a very
slippery slope.


From: SBA <sba@...>
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:39:02 +1100
Subject: Hakhel Email Community Awareness Bulletin-


If you start learning Mishnayos Megillah on the fourth day of Adar (this
Shabbos, March 4th) and learn just three Mishnayos a day (with your son,
etc.), you will complete the entire Mesechta on Purim.

And if you then continue to learn Mishnayos Pesachim starting on Purim
(it is a mitzvah to begin learning Hilchos Pesach on Purim, [Shulchan
Aruch, Orach Chayim 429; Mishne Berurah seif katan 2]), you will
complete the entire Mishnayos Pesachim before Pesach!


From: Stu Pilichowski <cshmuel@...>
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:05:46 +0000
Subject: Re:  How to Pasken (Decide) a question

From: Andy Goldfinger <Andy.Goldfinger@...>
> Avi Feldblum has written about the complexity of the paskening (legal
> decision) process.  Not only is great understanding of halachic sources
> required, but also the ability to understand the circumstances of the
> person asking the shaila (question).
> Here, in Baltimore, Rabbi Moshe Heineman is a major posek (decider of
> halachic questions).  I have been told that he has instituted
> "internships" for students who wish to learn how to posken.  They help
> handle questions with his guidance so they learn the practical side of
> psak.  Does anyone know if this is being done elsewhere?

I'm familiar with the YU program of semichah students dedicating a year
to practical rabbinics. They become either a rabbinic intern or
assistant (to a) rabbi. During that year, depending on the aggresiveness
of the senior Rabbi, they can be the rabbi's shadow and/or tag along to
bris', funerals, shiva's, mikvehs, you name it, to learn how a "real"
rabbi handles the practical aspects of rabbonus.

That includes paskening and seeing how the rabbi derives his psak. And
that can include anywhere between going through the sources himself or
picking up the phone to call a colleague to getting on a plane and
presenting the present shaylah / dilemma to a more senior posek or

Stuart Pilichowski
Mevaseret Zion, Israel


From: Asher Grossman <asherg@...>
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 01:33:37 -0500
Subject: Jewish vs. non-Jewish calendars (was valentine's day)

In response to Orrin Tilevitz's

>  For example, people wish each other a happy, healthy and prosperous
>  new year, just the way they do before Rosh Hashana, thus investing
>  January 1 with a similar status.

Janice Gelb writes:
>  The fact is that the world operates on a secular calendar so even
>  observant Jews deal with the secular year . . .

I would like to mention that there is a Halachic opinion (the source
eludes me right now) that one may not use numbers to designate the
months of the general calendar, but should refer to them by name. The
reason for this is as follows:

The Passuk says, of Chodesh Nissan: "Hachodesh hazeh lachem Rosh
Chodashim, rishon hu lachem lechodshei hashanah" - This month is to you
a head for all months, a first shall it be to you of the months of the
year. Chazal learned from this duplicacy that there is an (at least
implied) Issur to call a month other than Nissan "The first month" - "Hu
rishon, v'ein acher rishon" - [Nissan] is the first, another is not the
first. Using a numbering system to denote the general months, even when
referring to a month other than January, implicitly defines January as
being "the first" - which is not allowed.

The sad fact is that many Jews forget completely about the Jewish dates
and run their lives around the goyish calendar. This sometimes borders
on the tragic-comic. In many conversations with secular Jews in Israel,
my father will ask them: When is Yom Ha'Atzmaut? Roughly %95 have no
clue! Mind you, this is a National holiday - not a strictly religious
one. Could you imagine an American not knowing when is Independence Day?
But then, they were never taught that we Jews have a calendar which is
older than the general one by about 3700 years, and yet so well
regulated that it is still accurate (whereas the general calendar gets
"fixed" by some seconds every few years to prevent what happened to the
Julian calendar).



From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:58:55 +0200
Subject: kosher mcDonald's

[See her comments on this topic at:]




From: Carl A. Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 06:38:09 -0500
Subject: Mispronunciations

> I imagine other forum members have further examples of common
> mispronunciations.

Try those leather boxes that men wrap around their head & arm.

Tefeelin  (long E) Not  Tefilin   



From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:51:34 +0200
Subject: Re: Paid  Kaddish Services

The following was stated anonymously in mail-Jewish Vol. 51 #40 Digest:

>For example, when a friend's spouse passed away, he said for the 30
>days, but having only daughters and since both his parents are living
>there was no one to say for the remainder of the year.

I understand that the friend was a male and his spouse a female--a
reasonable but not necessary conclusion.

Now, either one with living parents is not permitted to say qaddish, in
which case the 30 days of qaddish was not permissible, or one with
living parents IS permitted to say qaddish, in which case he could have
said the qaddish for the entire 11-month period.

And this is not taking into consideration whether or not one must recite
qaddish for a deceased wife for any time period.

Just to bring up a real happening, when a young man (with both living
parents) wished to say qaddish for his departed maternal grandfather in
Tel Aviv some years ago (and his parents agreed), his rave aske Rav
Yitzhaq Yedidya Frankel zt"l, then the Rabbi of Tel Aviv.  Rav Frankel
forbade this.



From: Joel Rich <JRich@...>
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:11:33 -0500 
Subject: Psak?

Avi raised the question concerning approach to psak. I remember a tape
of a shiur on Yutorah discussing different approaches to psak . I don't
remember which country was linked to what but in essence the 2
approaches were:

1. Look for the most similar case already decided
2. understand the underlying theories of previous psak(even when
unstated) and then apply them

In practice it would seem that each of these would rely to some extent
on the other (else how do you define the key points to look for
similarity in or define the theory by weighted data points).  Has anyone
seen any formal analysis/discussion of these approaches.  I was
particularly struck by a recent yutorah shiur by R' M Taragin(Gush) on
kibbud av where he discussed some underlying concepts (e.g. is it an
ethical debt) and how these would play out in halacha (e.g. rasha).

If we view halacha as ratzon hashem 1. above could be supported by
saying who are we to think we understand what HKB"H theory was. 2 is
what I was always taught and is certainly more elegant especially to an
actuary (but of course we suspend disbelief about outlier data
points). And especially when R'YBS brings 6 3rd level related data
points in and explains them all with a new theory!

Any insights are appreciated

Joel Rich


From: Carl A. Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 06:50:05 -0500
Subject: Rabosay . . . . . mihr velen NIT bentchin

I only encounter the ad hoc invitations at weddings (as noted in other
postings, people leave early due to the lateness of the hour.)  I cannot
recall ever having someone unilaterally begin with R-MVB.  Usually,
there's discussion related to "do we have a mezumim" and the
distribution of benchers.  And some form of counting to see if there are
three like minded individuals.

I don't think a lengthy explanation is owed to the wouldbe convener.  A
simple "no" and not opening the bencher should be sufficient.



From: Immanuel Burton <iburton@...>
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:32:13 -0000
Subject: Reading Aloud Of The Ten Sons Of Haman.

The Shulchan Aruch (Hilchos Megillah 790:15) states that the Reader of
the Megillah has to recite the names of the ten sons of Haman in a
single breath.  The Mishnah Berurah there (paragraph 54) states the
practice in some places for the congregation also to recite these names
is not a custom, but that only the Reader should say these names.  The
Kitzur Shulchan Aruch (41:14) also says that this is not a correct

Given the above, where has the custom in some congregations arisen for
the Reader to pause before the names of the ten sons of Haman and for
the congregation to read them aloud before the Reader does so?  One
theory that I have heard is that when the Reader pauses just before the
names of the sons to take a deep breath, people in the congregation
assumed that he had paused as a cue for them to say something out loud,
like when he paused before chapter 2 verse 5 ("Ish yehudi...").

Secondly, if, as the Mishnah Berurah says, this is not a custom, then
does the Reader have any discretion in whether to stop or not despite
what the congregation generally does?  If it is not a custom, then there
is no local custom to which to adhere...

Immanuel Burton.


From: Daniel Nachman <lhavdil@...>
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:08:23 -0600
Subject: Sources: Rollerblades on Shabbat

It's been a couple of years since the queston of rollerblades on Shabbat
was discussed here.  Looking through the archives, I found only one
reference to a published work on the topic (Rabbi Ben Tsion Abba Shaul,
Or Letzion, volume 2, chapter 42, question 2, permitting rollerblades on
Shabbat).  Does anyone know of other published opinions or examinations
of this subject?


D. Nachman


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:36:31 +0000
Subject: Zeved HaBat

On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 00:59:45 -0500, Asher Grossman <asherg@...>
> My grandmother, who was of Yekkish descent, told me of a ceremony
> which was held by German Jews on the occasion of a girl's birth, named
> "Holigrasch" (I'm not sure of the spelling).

Two points:

1. The ceremony is Holle kreisch meaning calling out (kreisch - Western
Yiddish from Hebrew root kriah, calling out, possibly under influence of
the German verb, schreien, to cry out) the secular name (shem chol). The
custom in Germany was to use such a name for all purposes other than
specifically religious ones.

2. It was performed for both boys and girls. My mother remembered being
present at the one of a male cousin when she was a little girl.

Martin Stern


End of Volume 51 Issue 44