Volume 51 Number 48
                    Produced: Tue Mar  7  6:28:04 EST 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Avel during shloshim not eating meat
         [Yehonatan Chipman]
Hakhel Email Community Awareness Bulletin (2)
         [Joseph Kaplan, Michael Goldrich]
K'Omrom - B'Omrom?
         [Ari Y. Weintraub, M.D.]
Kosher Mc. Donalds
         [Dani Wassner]
Mispronunciations (7)
         [<ERSherer@...>, Ben Katz, Ira L. Jacobson, Martin Stern,
Orrin Tilevitz, David Prins, Yakir]
Penultimate/Ultimate stress
         [P.V. Viswanath]
Rollerblades on Shabbos
         [Carl A. Singer]
"The Worst Form of Avoda Zora"
         [Bill Bernstein]
Valentine's Day (3)
         [R. Meir Wise, Avi Feldblum, Akiva Miller]


From: Yehonatan Chipman <yonarand@...>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:41:26 +0200
Subject: Re:  Avel during shloshim not eating meat

Just for the record, our halakhah prohibits eating meat or drinking wine
only during aninut -- i.e, only between death and burial.  And even that
is permitted if a Shabbat falls during aninut.  As for alcohol, the
gemara early in Ch. 1 of Ketubot says that one should not drink more
than ten (!) cups of wine at a house of mourning (i.e., during shivah),
to avoid excessive levity -- meaning, that they did drink wine.  But to
be fair one should rememeber that the wine drunk in Rabbinic times was
an everyady beverage, and as such far less potent than what we drink

Yehonatan Chipman 


From: Joseph Kaplan <penkap@...>
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:22:52 -0500
Subject: Hakhel Email Community Awareness Bulletin

SBA wrote: "If you start learning Mishnayos Megillah on the fourth day
of Adar (this Shabbos, March 4th) and learn just three Mishnayos a day
(with your son, etc.),"

I assume etc.=daughters.

Joseph Kaplan

From: Michael Goldrich <michaelg25@...>
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:19:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Hakhel Email Community Awareness Bulletin

Believe it or not you will finish the same time if you learn it with
your daughter etc 

Michael S. Goldrich, MD


From: Ari Y. Weintraub, M.D. <aweintra@...>
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 21:32:30 -0500
Subject: K'Omrom - B'Omrom?

Last year, for the first time in my experience, I heard someone repeat
the posuk of "Vayehi K'omrom Aylav Yom Vayom" (Esther 3:4) with both the
kri of "K'Omrom" and the ksiv of "B'omrom". I have layned for many
years, and heard megilla in many shuls and several yeshivos, and this
was the first time I've ever encountered this practice. When I asked the
ba'al koreh, he replied that his rebbi (in YU, I believe) layned this
way, and that he had once heard a tape of the megilla with this
repetition. He thought that it was based on the Minchas Shai, but I have
not been able to find this. I was wondering if anyone on this list had
ever heard of such a practice and whether there are authoritative
sources for it. The fact that the famous article by Rav Breuer
discussing Lifnaihem/Bifnaihem and Laharog/V'Laharog does not mention
B'omrom/K'omrom further supports my assumption that the minhag is to
layn the kri of "K'omrom" only.

A freilichen Purim!

Ari Y. Weintraub, M.D.
Department of Anesthesiology & Critical Care
University of Pennsylvania Medical Center


From: Dani Wassner <dani@...>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:41:31 +0200 
Subject: re: Kosher Mc. Donalds

Interestingly, there was a court case that took place when the new
tachana merkazit (central bus station) opened in Jerusalem a few years

According to the rental contracts, all businesses had to be kosher. Now,
since Mc.Donalds is not kosher at other Jerusalem venues, they could not
get certification at their new bus station outlet and the station
management said they were therefore in breach of contract.

McDonalds argued that they WERE kosher and it was not their fault that
the Rabbinate would not certify them. Since they claimed to make every
effort to be kosher, the court upheld their argument and the outlet

It operates today without a Kashrut certificate but with a sign that
claims that the restaurant is 100% kosher and closed on Shabbat but that
the Rabbinate will not give it a certificate because other outlets in
the city are not kosher.

Dani Wassner
Bet Shemesh


From: <ERSherer@...>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:27:41 EST
Subject: Re: Mispronunciations 

    How about "Shalom Aleichem malachei hashalom ...miMelech Malachei
(instead of Malchei) hamelochim?

From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:25:11 -0600
Subject: Re: Mispronunciations

>Ashkenazin will pronounce it as Carl suggested in mile'el, but
>Sepharadim and Israelis, the majority of Hebrew speakers of today, will
>pronounce it in mile'ra TefiLin, long Li.

         I probably should know this, but don't.
         Why is it called mile'ra when the accent is on the last 
syllable?  Mile'el I understand, from the word for "l'eil", "before"; 
shouldn't the opposite word then be something like "mile'kamon", from 
"lekamon", ahead?

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614
e-mail: <bkatz@...>

From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:48:02 +0200
Subject: Re: Mispronunciations

Art Werschulz stated in mail-Jewish Vol. 51 #46 Digest:

      (2) In the "Ana Hashem"s that appear in Psalm 118: "hatzlichah"
      should be accented on the the last syllable.  For some reason,
      almost everybody in our shul accents the penultimate syllable.
      (Perhaps that's a parallelism with "hoshiah" in the previous
      line.)  When I davven from the amud, I try to emphasize the proper
      accenting here, hoping that people will eventually catch on.  It
      hasn't happened yet.

      How widespread are these errors?

That this is an error is not as obvious as it may appear.  For the two
verses that use this pair of words, my Miqra'ot Gedolot annotates each
to indicate that the one is mil'el (Psalms) and the other (Nehemia) is
milra`.  (That is, it indicates that although the word in this instance
is pronounced thusly, the opposite is the case in the other instance.)
This is perhaps explained by the hyphen in the latter and the absence of
one in the former.

That one verse has vav hahibbur and the other does not--seems not to
have significance.

Rather, I would ask why they **both** do not have penultimate stress,
from the principle of nasog ahor.

IRA L. JACOBSON         

From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:50:51 +0000
Subject: Re: Mispronunciations

On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:12:49 -0600 (CST) Jay F Shachter <jay@...>

> But, since Mr Himelstein has issued a veiled invitation for the latter,
> herewith are some of my favorite common mispronunciations:
> From the Rosh HaShana prayers: "Hayyom haras olam", pronouncing the thav
> as if it were a samekh, changing the meaning from "today is the birthday
> of the universe" to "today the universe was obliterated".
> From Proverbs 31:29, recited by a husband every Friday night, as he
> gazes lovingly across the table at his wife: "Rabbot banot asu xayil,
> v'at alit al kullana", pronouncing the `ayin in "`alit" as if it were an
> 'alef, changing the meaning from, "many daughters have done valorously,
> and you have exceeded them all" to "many daughters have done valorously,
> and you have cursed out all of them".
> From Deuteronomy 6:4, recited by all male Jews twice a day, and
> proclaimed by all Jews of both sexes in the climax to the Yom Kippur
> prayers, and on their deathbeds: "shma yisrael, adonai eloheynu, adonai
> exad", pronouncing the `ayin in "shma`" as if it were an 'alef, thereby
> changing the meaning from "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one God",
> to "Perhaps, O Israel, the Lord our God is one God".

According to Ashkenazim, there is no difference in pronunciation between
a thav and a samekh, or an ayin and an alef, so Jay is being unfair in
his criticisms. I hope that he does not mean us to take them seriously
when there are plenty of other much more serious mispronunciations
around.  Perhaps it is just a case of "Mishenikhnas Adar ... !"

Martin Stern

From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:41:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Mispronunciations

How about "bechatzrot eloheinum, yafrichu" (they [the tzadikim] will
sprout in the courtyards of our Lord) being instead sung as "bechatzrot,
eloheinu yafrichu" (our Lord(s) will sprout in the courtyards)?

From: David Prins <prins@...>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:53:32 +1100
Subject: Mispronunciations

Why do so many (including the publishers of Art Scroll) think the fourth
book of the Torah, and the first parasha of that book, are named
"Bamidbar" - given that the keyword that gives the name to the parasha
and the book is "Bemidbar"?

From: Yakir <yakirhd@...>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:47:28 +0200
Subject: Re: Mispronunciations

This is not quite the mispronunciations that Shmuel Himelstein was
referring to, but it I find it amusing that under some Eastern European
pronunciations of Hebrew the statement from B'reishit "v'hu yimshol bah"
(he will govern (?) her) comes out as "v'hi yimshoil bo" which sounds
very much like the opposite (and grammatically incorrect).


From: P.V. Viswanath <pviswanath@...>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 12:09:44 -0500
Subject: Penultimate/Ultimate stress

At 06:28 AM 3/6/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>(2) In the "Ana Hashem"s that appear in Psalm 118:  "hatzlichah" should be
>     accented on the the last syllable.  For some reason, almost everybody
>     in our shul accents the penultimate syllable.  (Perhaps that's a
>     parallelism with "hoshiah" in the previous line.)

I haven't been able to figure out why there's a difference between 
hatslikha and hoshia, in terms of the stress.  Anybody know?

Meylekh Viswanath


From: Carl A. Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 10:00:59 -0500
Subject: Rollerblades on Shabbos

Look for discussion of bicycles on Shabbos.
Two factors usually:

1 - making ruts if one leaves sidewalk / street and goes over grass /
field / mud.
2 - if they break, the possible desire to fix or adjust them - or carry
them home.



From: Bill Bernstein <billbernstein@...>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:58:06 -0600
Subject: Re: "The Worst Form of Avoda Zora"

I confess that I have never heard of the Gaon Rav Rabinovich, nor ever
looked at one of his seforim.  So I cannot say with any certainty that
my explanation is what he intended.

But I can say I have heard of the Rambam, who writes in h.Teshuva (4:4)
that there are 5 things (out of 24 which make it difficult for a person
to do teshuva), and a person who does them has a presumption of not
doing teshuva.  This is because they appear to most people to be very
minor things so even though the one who commits them sins, yet it
appears to him that he is innocent. The Rambam then lists them.  Seen in
this way, Valentine's Day is "the worst form of avoda zora" because it
seems so inncoent to us.  If we were asked to bow down in front of a
cross or pass our child to Moloch, we would obviously refuse--those
things are clearly forbidden.  But Valentine's Day is insidious
/because/ it appears to be so minor.  This is not necessarily my opinion
about Valentine's Day but I offer it by way of explanation how it could
be considered "the worst form of avoda zora."

Kol tuv,
Bill Bernstein
Nashville TN.


From: <Meirhwise@...> (R. Meir Wise)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:53:03 EST
Subject: Re: Valentine's Day

Those who wish to question Rav Rabinovitch's statement should write to
him directly at:   <ask@...>


Rav Wise

From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:53:03 EST
Subject: Re: Valentine's Day

I have sent a note to the above address, explaining that the discussion
is going on in mail-jewish, summarized the issue and requested
clarification. I will post any response I receive.


From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:19:01 GMT
Subject: Re: Valentine's Day

It seems to me that R. Meir Wise does not understand the question which
many MJers are asking him. We are not challenging Rav Rabinovitch's psak
that observance of Valentine's Day is Avodah Zara.

But what he said in MJ 51:34 was that Rav Rabinovitch holds it to be the
WORST FORM of Avodah Zara. THAT'S what we would like him to clarify.

Leah Gordon's exact question, as published in MJ 51:35, was:
> I will be very unlikely to take seriously a polemic
> statement with obvious problems -- could anyone believe
> that giving one's sweetie a rose is worse than offering
> one's firstborn to Ba'al?

So, Rabbi Wise, please clarify your understanding of Rav Rabinovitch's
psak. Would he really say that observing Valentines Day is worse than
offering one's firstborn to an idol, or that they at equal levels of

Or perhaps he would say that Valentines Day is very forbidden, but is
not quite as bad as offering one's firstborn to an idol. If so, your
description (MJ 51:34) of "Valentines day as the worst form of Avoda
Zara" is indeed rhetorical.

Akiva Miller


End of Volume 51 Issue 48