Volume 51 Number 53
                    Produced: Thu Mar  9  5:36:31 EST 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Common Mispronunciations (2)
         [Haim Shalom Snyder, Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz]
Counting for a Minyan (6)
         [SBA, SBA, Daniel Geretz, Carl Singer, Martin Stern, Bernard
Hoshiya na - hatzlicha na
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
K'Omrom - B'Omrom? (2)
         [Immanuel Burton, Ari Y. Weintraub, M.D.]
         [Baruch J. Schwartz]
Mispronunciations (Bamidbar vs. Bemidbar)
         [Gilad J. Gevaryahu]
Names of Sefarim (was: Mispronunciations)
         [Nathan Lamm]
Purim Special
         [Carl Singer]


From: <Haim.Snyder@...> (Haim Shalom Snyder)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:43:30 +0200
Subject: Common Mispronunciations

I have waited quite a while to see if this would come up and it hasn't.
In Psalm 103 of P'sukei D'zimra the word han'shama (with a dagesh in the
nun) is often, at least in Israel, mispronounced hanshama (without a
dagesh).  The former means "the soul" and the latter means
"respiration", a significant difference in meaning.

There is another word where the same letters and virtually the same
vowels have two different meanings (we're talking about a shva na and a
shva nah).  In Shirat Hayam, there is the word spelled yad dalet mem
vav.  With a dagesh in the dalet, it means "will be still (silent)" and
without it, it means "will be similar".  The former is the right one for
this instance.

Haim Shalom Snyder

From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabba.hillel@...>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:46:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Common Mispronunciations

I should also point out that in Shma there are a number of words that
have a deliberate pause marked so that one does not elide (correct
usage?) the end of the first and the beginning of the second.  The main
example that I see is a final mem followed by the word es. If someone
slurs, the second word becomes "mes" which of course can mean the
opposite of what we intend (depending on what the first word is).

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore"
<Sabba.Hillel@...> | The fish are the Jews, Torah is our water


From: SBA <sba@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:35:13 +1100
Subject: Counting for a Minyan

From: Irwin E. Weiss, Esquire <irwin@...>
> What does the waiter do if, during the davenning, one of the other frum
> (acceptable to him) Jews has to leave the room for personal reasons?
> Does he leave too, so as to destroy the minyan?

There are of course clear halachos on how and when to continue
if less than 10 remain.


From: SBA <areivim@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:50:13 +1100
Subject: Re: Counting for a Minyan

From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
> My understanding is that the halacha demands extending the benefit of
> the doubt to assuming that this person is Jewish.  Interestingly, I have
> attended Chabad minyanim where a minyan seemed to proceed even with one
> or more of the minyan were clearly not observant (e.g. drove to shul and
> parked their car right in front of the shul ... on shabbat) - I'm not
> sure that they consider this a halachic problem.

While some may consider a Mechalel Shabbos a 'tinok shenishba', does
that extend as far as making him acceptable for a minyan?  [To
paraphrase the Brisker Rav, "Nebach a Mechalel Shabbos is still a
Mechalel Shabbos.."]

Check out the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 72.
The heading of that chapter says it all
 "...one who desecrates Shabbos is is like an Idol-worshipper.."

So should we be so quick in condemning a person who was simply following
the halacha?


From: Daniel Geretz <dgeretz@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:55:47 -0500
Subject: Counting for a Minyan

I think the "9th" "10th" "11th" problem presents more than the obvious
problem. The following questions occur to me:

One obvious problem has to do with the "10th" person (**apparently**)
not being "dan lekaf zechut" (judging favorably) on the "9th" person -
was the "9th" a public Sabbath desecrator?  Maybe he was - how do we
know that he did not do teshuvah?  How can the "10th" possibly be in a
position to judge the "9th"?  In the interest of brevity, I will skip
many similar questions that occur to me.

Another problem has to do with *us* not being "dan lekaf zechut" on the
"10th" person.  The poster stated that he "pretended to be fielding a
cellphone call."  Do we know this for a fact (that it was pretend
vs. real)?  The poster represents that the "10th" "will not count a
non-frum Jew" for a minyan. Did the poster have a discussion with the
"10th" to determine his policy regarding who counts for a minyan and who
does not?  How are we in a position to judge the "10th"?

From: <casinger@...> (Carl Singer)
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 07:58:53 -0500
Subject: Counting for a Minyan

> What does the waiter do if, during the davenning, one of the other frum
> (acceptable to him) Jews has to leave the room for personal reasons?
> Does he leave too, so as to destroy the minyan?

This isn't relevant to counting someone for a minyan -- BUT I believe
the halacha is that once you begin davening with a minyan, you may
continue even if someone leaves and there are only 9 remaining.


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:26:39 +0000
Subject: Re: Counting for a Minyan

On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:22:21 -0500, Irwin E. Weiss, <irwin@...>

> The practice of the "waiter" is very problematic.  I agree with the
> three posters on 51#47 (Batya Medad, Yisrael Medad, Esther & Sholom
> Parnes).
> What does the waiter do if, during the davenning, one of the other frum
> (acceptable to him) Jews has to leave the room for personal reasons?
> Does he leave too, so as to destroy the minyan?

Once the sheliach tsibbur has begun chazarat hashats, he may complete it
and say the kaddish titkabal sfter it even if there is no longer a
minyan so long as the majority (6) remain.

Martin Stern

From: Bernard Raab <beraab@...>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 15:32:55 -0500
Subject: Counting for a Minyan

There are other views. Some time back I described the charrming and
heart-warming Email written by the Chabad rabbi of the Space Coast in
Florida, who fould himself trapped on an airplane on the ground for
hours waiting for clearance to take off, on the day of his
yahrzeit. Once he recognized that his plan to say kaddish upon his
arrival in New York would not happen, he set about to round up a minyan
of fellow travellers.  He did not want to make a public announcement,
although the crew offered to do so. He preferred to approach people
individually, so as to personalize the request and to gauge their
attitudes. He did not find any obvious Jews, but eventually succeeded in
finding eight others who claimed to be Jewish and were willing to join
the minyan. A tenth Jew, however, was not found. Finally, one man called
over the rabbi and said that while he himself was not Jewish, his mother
was Jewish, and would that matter? If so, he was very willing to join
the minyan.

The rabbi convened his minyan in the galley. He gave them a brief
introduction to the mincha service and told them that while he would be
the only one reciting the prayers, if they would respond with "amen" at
his signal, it would be as if all had prayed. They were very attentive,
balancing napkins on their heads, and by all accounts, had a meaningful

But that's Chabad--not "our" style. b'shalom--Bernie R.


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:20:57 +0200
Subject: Hoshiya na - hatzlicha na

This story might cast "light" on the difference between the two:

A man came to R' Yitzchak Elchanan Spektor, to ask his advice. He was
interested in uprooting himself and going to America.
``Do you earn a living?'' R' Yitzchak Elchanan asked him.
``Thank God,'' replied the man, ``I have enough to keep me going, but not
enough to really save money.''
``If that is so,'' said R' Yitzhak Elchanan, ``I suggest you stay where you
are. When we say, hosha-na - `save us' - in the hallel of Sukkos, we wave
the lulav to all four directions of the earth as well as up and down, but
when we say hatzlichah-na - `make us successful' - we do not move the lulav
or wave it at all.''

Yep, it's in one of my books.
Shmuel Himelstein


From: Immanuel Burton <iburton@...>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:19:54 -0000
Subject: Re: K'Omrom - B'Omrom?

When I learned to lein the Megillah I was told that it was incorrect to
say both k'omron and b'omrom, and that one should say only k'omrom,
which is the kri.

The repetitions later on in the Megillah of "le'hashmid
le'harog/ve'la'harog u'labed" (8:11) and "bifnayhem/lifnayhem" (9:2) are
on account of a doubt as to what the word should really be, whereas a
kri/ksiv is a different concept altogether.

There is another kri/ksiv in the Megillah in chapter 1 verse 16, where
the name Memuchan is spelled Mumchan, but is anyone going to suggest
that both of these should be read?

Immanuel Burton.

From: Ari Y. Weintraub, M.D. <aweintra@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:41:24 -0500
Subject: K'Omrom - B'Omrom?

Thank you to all who have replied off-list. Unfortunately, to date all
of the replies have been anecdotal, and only through a search of the
Avodah archives (www.aishdas.org) was I able to find any definitive
sources. The topic of repeats in the Megilla was discussed there in 5764
(2004) and most of the discussion concerns v'laharog and lifnaihem.
Regarding "b'omrom", the Keses Hasofer (R' Shlomo Ganzfried, ba'al
Kitzur Sh"A) is quoted as stating that this is unequivocally a kri
u'ksiv, with the implication that only the kri of "k'omrom" is read. It
seems that the minhag to layn "b'omrom" as well was taught in YU in the
80's, but no one has been able to provide a source yet.

The two articles related to this topic that are available online are:
http://www.herzog.ac.il/main/megadim/10breuer.html and

A freilichen Purim!
Ari Y. Weintraub, M.D.
Department of Anesthesiology & Critical Care
University of Pennsylvania Medical Center


From: Baruch J. Schwartz <schwrtz@...>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:56:41 +0200
Subject: Mispronunciations

Arie <aliw@...> writes:

      "alah, a curse, is a noun, not a verb. i went through my
      concordance and found, besides alah, alati (my curse) and
      alato (his curse) but never the form you suggest" (alit --
      "you [fem.sing] cursed", as suggested by J. F. Shachter

This is an error; the verb alah "to curse" does in fact occur in the
Bible; look in the Mandelkern concordance on page 97 column A, right on
the same page with the noun alah "curse". As a matter of fact, the exact
form alit, "you (fem. sing.) cursed" is found in Judges 17:2 (kere).

That said, it is still the case that this verb is never followed by the
preposition `al, and is unreasonable to imagine that it could be. Thus,
alit al kullana, as pronounced by those who do not differentiate between
aleph and ayin, could certainly never be taken to mean "you have cursed
all of them". Perhaps "you have cursed more than all of them," that is,
you have uttered more curses than any of them have ever uttered -- but I
doubt anyone would ever intend to express such a thing, let alone
mistakenly infer it. Proper non-Sephardic speech has pronounced the ayin
and the aleph identically for many centuries, and this is in no way to
be viewed as an error in pronunciation.

From: <Gevaryahu@...> (Gilad J. Gevaryahu)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:13:59 EST
Subject: Mispronunciations (Bamidbar vs. Bemidbar)

David Prins  (MJv51n48) asks:

> Why do so many (including the publishers of Art Scroll) think the
> fourth book of the Torah, and the first parasha of that book, are
> named "Bamidbar" - given that the keyword that gives the name to the
> parasha and the book is "Bemidbar"?

I have addressed this very question in an article whose reference is
below. My conclusion was that it is perfectly correct to call today the
book of Numbers in Hebrew Bamidbar. I would not like to repeat all the
arguments here, but suffice it to say that the book of Deuteronomy is
called Devarim and not Hadevarim as it appears in the chumash. The name
of Numbers of many generations was "Bemidbar Sinai", but once Sinai was
dropped the pronunciation changed over time.  Sefer Bemidbar or Sefer
Bamidbar: On the names of the Pentatuch books.  (Hebrew) Beit Mikra 179,
2004, pp. 174-184. [Hebrew]

Gilad J. Gevaryahu


From: Nathan Lamm <nelamm18@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 05:39:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Names of Sefarim (was: Mispronunciations)

David Prins wonders why we call the sefer "Bamidbar" instead of
"Bemidbar." Of course, "Bemidbar" is in semikhut and makes no sense
without the "Sinai" after it. One may as well ask why we don't refer to
sefer "HaDivarim" instead of "Divarim." (Of course, some Chumashim do
call the parsha "Eleh HaDivarim.") Oddly, though, we do refer to Sefer
Shemot, keeping the word in semikhut, and not Sefer Shaymot.

Nachum Lamm


From: <casinger@...> (Carl Singer)
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:02:26 -0500
Subject: Purim Special

I live in Passaic and we have a gemach for just about everything -- in
an attempt to further the mitzvah I have established a "lost sock
gemach" -- the suttan invades our washing machines and dryers stealing
socks -- a well known fact.  SO -- please email me your lost socks and
if I find matching pairs I will email them back to you.

A freilichen Purim.


End of Volume 51 Issue 53