Volume 51 Number 55
                    Produced: Fri Mar 10  5:20:44 EST 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Aroma cafe in Jerusalem
         [Batya Medad]
Building a Synagogue
         [Allan Baumgarten]
Hasgachot on Chain Stores (4)
         [Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz, Arie, Ben Katz, Avi Feldblum]
lost socks ge'mach
         [Sholom Parnes]
Paid Kaddish Services
         [Alan Friedenberg]
Rollerblades on Shabbos (2)
         [Ari Trachtenberg, N Miller]
Saying Kadish when not Obligated
Valentine's Day and New Year's Day
         [Bernard Raab]
Wine in Talmudic times
         [Ira L. Jacobson]


From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 18:18:10 +0200
Subject: Re: Aroma cafe in Jerusalem

There's also a problem with Aroma cafe there, since it doesn't have a
hechsher, unless things have changed.



From: Allan Baumgarten <baumg010@...>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:36:38 -0600
Subject: Building a Synagogue

Does anyone have experience in building a synagogue in combination with
some other kind of development?

We are a new congregation in the Midwest, meeting in members' living
rooms and basements.  We have looked diligently for other space but have
run into zoning restrictions and other obstacles.  One idea would be to
jointly develop a property that, for example, would have space for a
shul on the ground floor (with a separate entrance) and apartments or
condos on upper floors.  I know there are older families in our
neighborhood who a house that is probably too big for their current
needs but no good options in the area.

I would appreciate any replies.

Allan Baumgarten
952/925-9121    Fax 952/925-9341


From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabba.hillel@...>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:53:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Hasgachot on Chain Stores

> From: <ERSherer@...>
>     The answer is, as is done with Dunkin Donuts in Boston and in
> Chicago, the store that has a hashgocho has a sign on its door
> announcing that it is kosher and forbidding customers from bringing in
> any food of their own. If the store in Washington Square that is
> kosher announces that fact to all who come in, there is no basis for
> any one to infer that the stores in Cleveland Circle and Coolidge
> Corner are also kosher.

Unfortunately, there are groups who will deliberately try to fool people
into thinking that every store has the hashgacha.  Also, it is a matter
of what the normal custom in the country is (what people expect).  In
the United States, people assume that everything in a chain is not
kosher unless they see the prominent sign.  In Israel, the word would go
out "McD's is kosher in Yerushalayim" not that a specific store is
kosher.  It is a matter of the likelihood of customer expectations.

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore"
<Sabba.Hillel@...> | The fish are the Jews, Torah is our water

From: <aliw@...> (Arie)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:56:50 +0200
Subject: Re: Hasgachot on Chain Stores

in MJ 51/52, <ERSherer@...> wrote:

>The answer is, as is done with Dunkin Donuts in Boston and in
>Chicago, the store that has a hashgocho has a sign on its door
>announcing that it is kosher and forbidding customers from 
>bringing in any food of their own. If the store in Washington 
>Square that is kosher announces that fact to all who come in, 
>there is no basis for any one to infer that the stores in Cleveland 
>Circle and Coolidge Corner are also kosher.

i don't know boston - i was there once - but i went with my cousin after
shul one morning while visiting him in chicago to HIS corner DD that was
kosher, and while there may have been a sign, it wasn't prominent and i
didn't see it. and he told me which ones were ok. (no pun intended).

>The [fact] that the kosher store has a prominent sign (in Hebrew
>as well as English) announcing the fact [is sufficient]. If you don't 
>see the sign it's not kosher.  The Rabbinate should give people 
>credit for having that much intelligence.

you have to understand that many people in israel look to eat in stores
that are kosher, even if you or i wouldn't eat in their home (and they
would get insulted if they knew why). and they don't necessarily look
for a kashrut certificate if they think the place is kosher. i've seen
people look at the little sign that the rabbanut gives restaurants
acknowledging that they sold their chametz, which the restaurant hung up
after it lost its teudah, months after pessach, and assume that meant
it's kosher.

this is not the place to add, so i'll be brief, that i will eat in a
place without a teudah if i know the owner and/or the mashgiach, and i
will avoid a place with a teudah if i know of the owner and/or the
mashgiach, and that knowledge gives me reason to do so.


From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:57:47 -0600
Subject: Re: Hasgachot on Chain Stores

         This may not earn me any more fans on this list, but here goes:
         Speaking of Dunkin' Donuts, I know someone observant who 
franchises them.  According to the way the franchises are set up, all of 
the donuts have to be made the same way from the same ingredients; if not, 
they can lose their franchise.  Guess what?  Every ingrediant that goes 
into a DD is certifed kosher.

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614
e-mail: <bkatz@...>

From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:57:47 -0600
Subject: Re: Hasgachot on Chain Stores

In relation to Ben's comments above, my understanding is slightly
different (although I can believe that DD HQ would like the franchisee
to understand it the same as Ben reported it). This was the case with
Carvel franchises many years ago (i.e. they were required to only use
the Carvel brand items in their store). This meant that if they went low
on an item and could net get a Carvel delivery, they would potentially
have to shut down. A group of franchise owners sued and won that they
could purchase "equivalent" items that were not branded. My
understanding is that the same is true of Dunkin Donuts. So while it is
correct that the DD mix is made by a company in Rochester NY under the
OU (I think), so that the probability is that the ingredients in the
donut are all kosher, the franchises under hashgacha agree to ONLY use
the DD mix. There is a separate issue related to the soups and
sandwiches, that can be totally not kosher.

As this is what I remember hearing, but never actually investigated, I
would be interested in anyone on the list can either confirm or say that
this is just another Jewish Urban legend and has no basis in historical

Avi Feldblum


From: Sholom Parnes <merbe@...>
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:18:52 +0200
Subject: lost socks ge'mach

Attached find two odd socks that have been collecting dust in our
laundry room for some time now.

If you have any matches, please e-mail them back to me.

Students of advanced "kabbala" , of course, firmly believe that those
missing socks are converted by the suttan to slightly bent wire hangers.

A joyous PURIM to all MAIL-JEWISHERS and all Clal Yisroel.



From: Alan Friedenberg <elshpen@...>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:43:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Paid Kaddish Services

My wife's uncle died last year.  He never married, and he was the only
boy in his family (he had four living sisters, including my mother-in
-law).  Rather than pay someone to say kaddish, we asked my father to
say it.  He's attends minyan regularly, and we felt it would be more
personal since he actually knew the deceased.  He was happy to do it,
and we feel better knowing that the kaddish is still in the family.

Alan Friedenberg
Baltimore MD


From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 09:06:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Rollerblades on Shabbos

> From: Carl A. Singer <casinger@...>
> Look for discussion of bicycles on Shabbos.
> Two factors usually:
> 1 - making ruts if one leaves sidewalk / street and goes over grass /
> field / mud.

Why does this not apply to strollers or even shoes (that leave clear,
if temporary, marks in mud just like rollerblades?

> 2 - if they break, the possible desire to fix or adjust them - or carry
> them home.

Again, how does this differ from strollers or shoes?

The main distinction that I see has to do with the distance.
Rollerblades travel greater distances more easily than shoes or
strollers.  As a result, two issues come up:

1.  You are more likely to be a significant distance from home if they
break, making the desire to fix them is more threatening.

2.  It is easier to go beyond the boundaries permitted to travel on

When I asked this question of my parents' rabbi, he disallowed
rollerblades on shabbat ... and, after being pressed, cited another
issue of control and the greater probability of causing forbidden damage
to surroundings [or yourself, I suppose] on Shabbat.

Sorry ... like the shulchan arukh, I provide no tangible sources ...

Ari Trachtenberg,                                      Boston University
http://people.bu.edu/trachten                    mailto:<trachten@...>

From: N Miller <nmiller@...>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 14:11:11 -0500
Subject: Rollerblades on Shabbos

Carl Singer offers two reasons to avoid roller-skating on shabes"

>1 - making ruts if one leaves sidewalk / street and goes over grass /
>field / mud.
>2 - if they break, the possible desire to fix or adjust them - or carry
>them home.

While I don't intend to resume that delightful activity at my age, it
seems to me that the same strictures, al akhes kamo v'kamo, apply to my
taking a walk on shabes.  For instance, we have narrow sidewalks in our
neighborhood.  This often requires, when meeting oncoming traffic, that
I step off the hard pavement onto the soft earth that surrounds our many
trees.  As to 'possible desire', there is the constant temptation of
whole squadrons of immodestly-dressed young women, and even not such
young ones.

Which is to say that the enjoyment stemming from anxiety and the
contemplation of every imaginable source of pain and trouble is not the
only way one by which one can honor the seventh day.  That used to be
reserved for the Karaites.  We have instead eruvim, sensible solutions
for life's problems.  Riding on my recumbent tricycle involves much less
work than walking and it's far easier on the spine.  Had bikes existed
in Bavel it is arguable that at least some of the Tannaim and Amoraim
would have given them an ok.  Nowadays, alas, orthodoxy is being taken
over by the grim puritanical strain.  I have reasons to believe that
this will not last but that's a separate matter,

Noyekh Miller


From: <chips@...>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:00:07 -0700
Subject: Saying Kadish when not Obligated

> When my maternal grandmother, who had no sons, passed away 18 years
> ago, my mother asked me to say kaddish for her, and it was fine with
> my father, so I did. It did not occur to me that there was any shayla
> to ask, and perhaps even Rav Frankel would have allowed it in that
> case, since it was my mother who asked me to do it, not vice
> versa. Certainly none of the rabbis at the shuls I went to, who knew
> the situation, said that I shouldn't do it. (At one shul, I was told
> not to say kaddish d'rabbanan if there were real aveilim present.)

	I've seen this too and frankly it puzzled me to distraction. I
could understand the kaddish after Oleinu , but why have only real
aveilim say kaddish d'rabbanan ?



From: Bernard Raab <beraab@...>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:54:35 -0500
Subject: Valentine's Day and New Year's Day

>From: Orrin Tilevitz
>But instead of prolonging this discussion, which has the
>hallmark "sorry" of being about to turn pretty nasty, I suggest that we
>agree that Eitan (and Janice) and, I suppose, Bernie will continue to
>attend New Year's Eve parties, and I shall continue to do what I always
>do on that night, i.e., go to sleep when the fireworks die down.

Yes, we are party animals. Alas, the group of friends (including a
prominent pulpit rabbi) with whom we would regularly meet on New Years
eve for a rather sober party, which frequently disbanded before midnight
(!), no longer convenes due to dispersal of members to other venues. But
we are still amenable to "pick-up parties", if invited.

b'shalom--Bernie R.


From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:32:45 +0200
Subject: Re: Wine in Talmudic times

Martin Stern stated in mail-Jewish Vol. 51 #52 Digest:

      The custom was to dilute all wine, at least 3 parts water to 1
      part wine (Shabb.122a) so it cannot have had more than about 3%
      alcohol. Because of the difficulty of obtaining safe drinking
      water in those times, this mixture would nowadays probably be
      considered as disinfected water rather than wine!

It is my distinct impression (and professionals here will either agree
or correct me), that 3 percent alcohol will not disinfect to any
significant degree.  Or to put it differently, liquor is a good
disinfectant, and wine is not.

IRA L. JACOBSON         


End of Volume 51 Issue 55