Volume 51 Number 58
                    Produced: Sun Mar 12  7:35:38 EST 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Announcing the new moon, etc.
         [Carl Singer]
Common Mispronunciations
         [Sam Gamoran]
Dunkin Donuts (6)
         [Ben Katz, Rabbi Shaya Kilimnick, Joel Rich, Elazar M. Teitz,
Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz, Arie]
Fw: Megilla - Commom errors
Kashrut and Franchise Stores
         [Janice Gelb]
K'Omrom - B'Omrom?
         [Asher Grossman]
Lost Sock Gemach (2)
         [Shoshana L. Boublil, Shayna Kravetz]
Wine in Talmudic times
         [Asher Grossman]


From: <aliw@...> (Arie)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:30:06 +0200
Subject: Re: Alah

in MJ 51/53, Baruch J. Schwartz  wrote:

>This is an error; the verb alah "to curse" does in fact occur in the
>Bible; look in the Mandelkern concordance on page 97 column A, 
>right on the same page with the noun alah "curse". As a matter of 
>fact, the exact form alit, "you (fem. sing.) cursed" is found in 
>Judges 17:2 (kere).

mikol milam'dai hiskalti.(from here as well as from jay shachter, who
pointed out the same source off-line). now that i know alah is also used
a a verb, i will point out that alah is not only a curse, but also an
oath, even a positive one (as in avraham having eliezer take an oath to
go to his family in aram naharaim to look for a bride for yitzchak), so
maybe while one gazes lovingly...  at any rate, i still don't think the
meaning of that pasuk in eshet hayil is a problem, and as baruch
continues in his post.



From: Carl Singer <csngr@...>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:17:47 -0500
Subject: Announcing the new moon, etc.

> Incidentally, there are two practical reasons for announcing the molad
> these days. The first reason, pointed out to me by someone (I'm sorry
> I've forgotten who) the last time this topic came up here, is to enable
> people to figure out the latest time they can say kiddush levonah.

Interesting --

we announce when the Molad is (interesting, but we do nothing different
knowing that time)

we announce when Rosh Chodesh is -- important because davening changes,
certain work is prohibited (washing clothes as an example.)

we do NOT announce when we can start / stop saying kiddush levonah --
which can cause problems -- as Ma'ariv is ending on motzei Shabbos -- a
frequent time to say kiddush levonah -- people are asking if they can
say, etc.



From: Sam Gamoran <SGamoran@...>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:14:19 +0200
Subject: Re: Common Mispronunciations

> ...educated people who say hodu instead of hodo...

Last year on Purim, "k'tov lev hamelech bayayin" (a bit tippled), I
proposed that the translation for "hodu al eretz v'shamayim" might be
"He is a turkey upon the heavens and earth" and that this blasphemy
should be proof enough that this is a wrong pronunciation.

Happy Purim!
Sam Gamoran

PS I too would like to contribute to the lost socks gemach but first I
have to try and find me the rightful owners lefi simanim.  Just email me
the color indicating which side of the toe the hole is in...


From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:11:57 -0600
Subject: Re: Dunkin Donuts

  According to the franchiser I know, they can lose their license if
they substitute a different ingrediant.  Kashrut organizations (I am
sorry to say) may want you to believe otherwise, but it does not seem to
be the case.

  And OF COURSE the soups and other things in the store may be traif.  I
was just talking donuts.

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614
e-mail: <bkatz@...>

From: <rebshaya@...> (Rabbi Shaya Kilimnick)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:12:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Dunkin Donuts

The first Kosher DD was in Rochester NY 1978.

I, together with the non-Jewish owner, Gerald Aumick, were successful in
persuading the DD main office in Massachusetts to allow for Kosher
alternative brands to be used in their respective franchises without it
being percieved as a breach in their existing Franchise Regualtions. I
then informed Rabbi Senter of the KOF K and then Rabbi Shandeloff of the

Today Rochester has several Kosher DDs becuase a franchisee owner, Mr.
Robero, produces all the product at a CPL ( Central Production Location)
which is under my supervision. The only DD bearing a Kosher Certificate
is the Monroe Ave store, because there is no meat served out of their
microwave and the cheese is Kosher. The frozen egg product has an OU.

The DD franchisees have to purchase their product from a DD Franchise
Distributor , who services the DD operations in their region.  That is
where there is a potential compromise of Kashrus.  DD does not
manufacture their items. They are sent out for bid to maufacturers of
bakery mixes and products who must be able to produce in accrodance with
DD specifications and formulas. Not all contracts need be awarded to
Kosher companies. Therefore, the assumption that all DD stores are
kosher is an untruth. Whereas in the Rochester NY area everything I have
seen is Kosher in the line of DD products, it does not mean that it is
universally true.

A Kosher supervision is necesary for allDunkin Donuts.

Rabbi Shaya Kilimnick
Congregaion Beth Sholom

From: Joel Rich <JRich@...>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:31:27 -0500
Subject: Dunkin Donuts

>  My understanding is that the same is true of Dunkin Donuts. So while it
> is correct that the DD mix is made by a company in Rochester NY under the
> OU (I think), so that the probability is that the ingredients in the
> donut are all kosher, the franchises under hashgacha agree to ONLY use
> the DD mix. There is a separate issue related to the soups and
> sandwiches, that can be totally not kosher.
> As this is what I remember hearing, but never actually investigated, I
> would be interested in anyone on the list can either confirm or say that
> this is just another Jewish Urban legend and has no basis in historical
> reality.
> Avi Feldblum

According to my LOR quoting R' Teitz who gives the Hashgacha on the DD
in Elizabeth, NJ there are at least 2 plants that make the DD
ingredients and at least 1 is not supervised. In addition certain
products sold in nonsupervised stores (soups, meat ) are pure traif and
then you get into the hot utensils issues.

Joel rich

From: Elazar M. Teitz <remt@...>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:25:00 GMT
Subject: Dunkin Donuts

The comment was made that "Speaking of Dunkin' Donuts, I know someone
observant who franchises them.  According to the way the franchises are
set up, all of the donuts have to be made the same way from the same
ingredients; if not, they can lose their franchise.  Guess what?  Every
ingrediant that goes into a DD is certifed kosher."

I have supervised kashruth in a local Dunkin Donuts for over 20 years,
and can state from experience that the above statement is simply not the
case.  What is true is that every ingredient is _available_ with
certification for kashruth, but at least one very critical ingredient
comes in two varieties, one kosher (OU) and one absolutely treif (animal
ingredients): the shortening.

DD does not have a single supplier for a given ingredient; it may come
from different sources, but it is packed in identical packaging,
whatever the source.  Shortening is the one exception: the kosher and
non-kosher forms have different-colored boxes.  For the other
ingredients, I remember occasions when some bags had certification,
while others of the same ingredient did not.

A further problem is the quality of certifications.  DD does not
distinguish among them.  To them, a certification is a
certification. There was a time that they shipped in a product
containing jelly beans, supervised by a rabbi who reportedly placed an
advertisement in an Anglo-Jewish paper that in order to officiate at
funerals and unveilings, he was resigning from his status as kohein.
Obviously, one whose concern is that what he eats be kosher, rather than
just have a hechsher, would not accept such certificstion.

And, as Avi mentioned, the franchises do have options when they run out
of a product.  This, in fact, was the case when our local DD first went
kosher.  After kashering all the equipment, the store was ready for
kosher operation, but the kosher shortening had not arrived. We went to
several local supermarkets and purchased 50 three-pound cans of Crisco
to start operations.

I hope no one was misled by the original posting into thinking that one
may eat the product of any DD store, with or without kashruth
supervision.  It simply isn't so.


From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabba.hillel@...>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:45:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Dunkin Donuts

However, the nonpremix products, soups, sandwiches, etc do not have to
be provided by the chain.  Simlarly, the equipment that the mix is
prepared on does not have to be kosher.  Of course, the store does cook
products, as well.  Since there is no mashgiach checking, that is why
those stores are different from Carvel.  In fact, Carvel stores notice
(when I went to look a number of years ago) explicitly excluded anything
prepared in the store itself such as Ice Cream cakes.

That is why, even though the mix obtained from headquarters is kosher,
the store must have its own hashgacha.

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore"
<Sabba.Hillel@...> | The fish are the Jews, Torah is our water

From: <aliw@...> (Arie)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:30:22 +0200
Subject: Re: Dunkin Donuts

The problem in that case is less with the specific ingredients as 
with the atmosphere. When a store doesn't know from kashrut, 
issues arise as to food brought in from outside (workers' lunch, for 
example), or whether a Jew turns on the flame, other products sold 
in the store (I don't remember whether the DD's that i've been in 
had other products, but i seem to recall danishes and other 
pastries and sandwiches ?), etc.



From: SBA <sba@...>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:38:00 +1100
Subject: Fw: Megilla - Commom errors

This week's Der Yid has a full page list of common errors made by baale
kriyeh of Megillas Esther.

I have scanned it and can send.

 SBA <sba@...>


From: Janice Gelb <j_gelb@...>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:52:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Kashrut and Franchise Stores

For an in-depth article on kashrut and franchise 
stores, see http://oukosher.org/index.php/articles/single/5042/

-- Janice


From: Asher Grossman <asherg@...>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:02:33 -0500
Subject: Re: K'Omrom - B'Omrom?

The K'Omrom - B'Omrom variation is indeed amatter of Kri and Ktiv, I
believe the reason that some Ba'alei Kor'im read both is simply because
they are confused with the other places where you do repeat the
different versions (Shorer/Sorer is one which wasn't mentioned yet).

Along the same vein, I've heard a Ba'al Koreh read Zecher and Zeicher
when reading the Leining for Purim (Vayavo Amalek), as well as when
leining it in Parshat Beshalach - simply because he is already an
octogenarian and gets confused.



From: Shoshana L. Boublil <toramada@...>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:58:55 +0200
Subject: Re: Lost Sock Gemach

> From: <casinger@...> (Carl Singer)
> I live in Passaic and we have a gemach for just about everything -- in
> an attempt to further the mitzvah I have established a "lost sock
> gemach" -- the suttan invades our washing machines and dryers stealing
> socks -- a well known fact.  SO -- please email me your lost socks and
> if I find matching pairs I will email them back to you.

To add a serious note <g>, Erma Bombeck wrote in one of her books (I
think it was "Motherhood the 2nd oldest profession", but it could have
been "if life is a bowl of cherries, why am I in the pits?") about this.

She said that most young wives are very ashamed about this -- they put
in a pair and only one sock comes out, and they are always convinced
that if they just did it right -- it wouldn't happen.

Well, she disclosed, there is actually a creature who lives in washing
machine and always eats only one of every pair of socks.

So, she said, women should know it isn't their fault at all!!

Shoshana L. Boublil

From: Shayna Kravetz <skravetz@...>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:05:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Lost Sock Gemach

Sholom Parnes <merbe@...> writes:
>Students of advanced "kabbala" , of course, firmly believe that those
>missing socks are converted by the suttan to slightly bent wire hangers.

Actually, this has now been superceded by a more complicated evolution,
in which the socks first become dried-out ballpoint pens which are then
themselves converted to wire hangers.  The Kabbalists who accept this
revised approach are said to be "chachamim yod'ei ha-eitim"; you can
find the source passage at Esther 1:13.

Have a frivolous Adar and a merry Purim. Shabbat shalom.



From: Asher Grossman <asherg@...>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:56:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Wine in Talmudic times

Martin Stern wrote in 51/52:
>  The custom was to dilute all wine, at least 3 parts water to 1 part
>  wine (Shabb.122a) so it cannot have had more than about 3% alcohol.

Actually, the reason wine was diluted so much is because the wine in
those days was so strong that drinking it full-strength was impossible.


End of Volume 51 Issue 58