Volume 51 Number 97
                    Produced: Sun Apr 16 23:01:22 EDT 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

The Chofetz Chaim did not have payehs - a Pesach Message
         [Carl A. Singer]
         [Shoshana Ziskind]
Layperson selling Chametz
         [Ira L. Jacobson]
Making sure the avel can hear
         [Shoshana L. Boublil]
Non-Jews receiving kibbudim in shul
         [Esther & Sholom Parnes]
The Satmar Rebbe
Scholarship and Spending (2)
         [Martin Stern, Joshua Goldmeier]
Supplement to the Haggada
         [David Mescheloff]
Survivor: Israel - Program for High School Seniors headed to Israel
         [Ilana G Lieberson]
Torah For Pesach from YUTorah.org!


From: Carl A. Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 11:14:48 -0400
Subject: The Chofetz Chaim did not have payehs - a Pesach Message

Yesterday I heard a short d'var Torah at Shacharis that began with "The
Chofetz Chaim's Pesach Sedar did not follow everything in the Mishnah

A skeptic might ask, "says who?!" -- the answer is this is first person
knowledge from someone who sat at the Chofetz Chaim's Seder Table. (A
Rabbi now in his 90's whose son was giving the d'var Torah) More
important is the lesson to be learned -- that one's messorah (family
traditions) trump.

I've always held a special thought that my Pesach Sedar is very much
like the one I sat at as a child - to the extent that I even use the
same Hagadah, an early Israeli publication where "Torah" is consistently
mis-spelled and where the wine-stained pages remind me of its original
owner.  I'd like to think that if my zaydes, both of whom were killed
before I was born looked in on my wife's Sedar Table, they'd feel at

Back to Mesorah. 

"The Chofetz Chaim did not have payehs" -- may sound like a
non-sequitur.  But it's true, again the same source.  But you've seen
the pictures - I'm told they've been doctored.  But in today's frum
world would it be politically correct to depict a gadol otherwise?



From: Shoshana Ziskind <shosh@...>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:49:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Contradiction?

On Apr 11, 2006, at 5:07 AM, Leah S. Gordon 

> Doesn't anyone except me see the inherent contradiction here?
> I mean, am I supposed to accept Batya's statement:
>> background.  As I wrote before, Rabbi Wolf, zatza"l, considered
>> including non-frum men in a minyan as a way of bringing them into
>> observant Judaism.  The idea that regardless of their observance they
>> are accepted as Jews is of the utmost importance.  Just that
>> acceptance--"You count!"--can be the key.
> and then immediately forget that content because some women think (as
> Shoshana writes):
>> obviously is reflected in my response but I think of myself as an
>> official part of the community even if I don't count for the minyan.  
>> I
> These statements cannot both be true.  Women do not have different
> self-consciousness/self-esteem from men in my experience.  This is why
> it is important to question/struggle with a choice not to count women.

What? I can't say that I feel counted? Are you not VALIDATING my

Seriously though, it's a matter of different roles in the community.
The man might feel counted in the minyan because he has an obligation to
go to minyan.  It is a major part of his communal life. I disagree that
because it is that way for men it has to be for women.  I'm trying to
think of how I felt part of my first Jewish community. It wasn't
anything to do with wanting to count for a minyan. It was when the Rabbi
of the shul called us "yidden" and I realized I was part of klal yisroel
and part of his community.  It was all the families inviting me, a
single somewhat confused BT, to their homes to stay for Shabbos.  That
did s lot to make me feel part of a community.

> If it makes men feel like part of the community to "count" then it
> makes women feel like not part of the community to "not count".

Again, I disagree with the idea if men are doing it then women should
too.  It's not our obligation.  Men for the most part aren't lighting
candles. Even if they're single if they eat at someone's house the lady
of the house will have him in mind and the men doesn't light (AFAIK)
Should they feel left out because it's unfair that this is a woman's
mitzvah? Men go to mikvah but it's obviously different than when women
go.  There is so much to Jewish life for women that is NOT about the
minyan.  Of course it also depends on where you are in life. If I wasn't
married or didn't have children or was older I would want to participate
more in Jewish communal life but even there that could mean going to
women's shiurim, doing chessed in the community, and so forth.  It
doesn't necessarily mean counting for a minyan.

I can only explain how I feel and for the most part, I feel counted in
my community. Maybe I'm a statistical aberration but I think I'm hardly
the only one.

So if you want to make statements like "I don't feel counted since I
don't count for the minyan and I'm not alone in this feeling", fine.
But to say all women don't feel counted is simply incorrect.

Have a wonderful Yom Tov (if you get this before Yom Tov!)

Shoshana Ziskind


From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 16:53:04 +0300
Subject: Re: Layperson selling Chametz

> No rav includes chametz utensils in the sale, for that reason.
> Instead, they are rented to the non-Jew, and only the chametz absorbed
> within them is sold.

A certain rav in Tel Aviv told me over thirty years ago that he was the
one who discovered that the documents used previously by the Tel Aviv
Rabbinate included selling the utensils, and as a result of this
discovery the text was changed.

But the text in the highly discussed Qitzur Shulhan `Arukh (at least in
the Frenkel edition) refers to selling the spirits and the barrels "`im
hakelim" (with the containers or utensils), as well as empty barrels
that had been used for storing whiskey and containers for hametz, such
as kneading troughs and flour chests.

Also, there are indeed some contemporary rabbis who continue to sell the

IRA L. JACOBSON         


From: Shoshana L. Boublil <toramada@...>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:22:32 +0200
Subject: Re: Making sure the avel can hear

> Chana Luntz <Chana@...> wrote:
> > Leah Gordon writes:
> I obviously can't answer for Leah but I can say for myself that when my
> father a"h(not a very observant man) died and we were holding shiva
> minyanim in his house, the fact that there were only 9 men one night and
> they started calling completely non-identifying men in his apartment
> building to make up a minyan when I was sitting right there, fully
> conversant with the service, definitely distressed me.
> -- Janice

I found something else far more distressing.

Nearby, a woman lost her daughter suddenly (16.5 yrs. old) and we went
to visit her for Shiv'a and found her sitting in the house with the
women, while the men sat in a sukkah outside.

What was distressing was that there were people speaking, rabbis came to
comfort -- and she couldn't hear a single thing they had been saying.
Nobody could be bothered to go and get an amplifying system rigged so
she could hear what was being said.

She also couldn't hear the minyan or kaddish being said for her

Please, if you come across such a situation, fix it.

Shoshana L. Boublil


From: Esther & Sholom Parnes <merbe@...>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:10:50 +0200
Subject: Non-Jews receiving kibbudim in shul

As with any question of this sort, the key is to take everyone's
sensibilities into account.

With a little forthought and imagination solutions can usually be found.

Specifically to the question that Freda asked, I can think of many ways
to honor non-Jews at a simcha.  Holding the poles of the chupah comes to
mind.  Being one of the transporters (how's that for a translation of
QVATTER ?)  of the baby at the bris is certainly doable.

I am going to keep this short, as I am supposed to be cleaning the
computer room for Pesach !

A Happy and Kosher Pesach to the entire MJ family.



From: SBA <sba@...>
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 00:26:21 +1000
Subject: Re: The Satmar Rebbe

From: (Jeanette Friedman)
> actually, I met them more than once. Decent, thoughtful people.
>The chassidim? the "riff raff?" they advocate the destruction of Israel.

One shouldn't judge a community of 50-60,000 souls by the misbehaviour
of less than 1% of their numbers.

The vast majority of Sattmar chassidim are good, generous and erlich
Jews.  The chesed done by that community is HUGE.

Unfortunately there is very little more that they can do re those
 meshugoim who call themselves NK.  They have been thrown out of Satmar
 shuls and schools.

THe US is a democracy after all and every weirdo can do and say as he



From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:26:23 +0100
Subject: Scholarship and Spending

On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 13:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Frank Reiss <freiss47@...>
> I send my daughter to girls Yeshiva HS, on scholarship. My daughter
> wants to be in Israel for Yuntiv. The flt. cost is more than
> double. Would this be fraudulent of me? Would there be a price aspect,
> or is any such trip, out of bounds?

If your daughter pays her fare out of her own money then there would be
no problem. If she expects you to pay, tell her you cannot do so until
you pay the full yeshivah fees. Children should learn to understand that
they cannot have every whim satisfied at other people's expense.

Martin Stern

From: Joshua Goldmeier <Josh@...>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:42:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Scholarship and Spending


As a fellow yid on scholarship, let me tell you my decision.  My parents and
grandfather raised me to behave, that on scholarship, one doesn't have to
deny yourself all sorts of extras.  BUT, one must weigh what's a "small"
extra versus a big one.  I buy some pc games and movies on sale for myself.
But my wife and I have decided that taking vacations is not the right
decision FOR US.  I am not making any decisions for you, simply explaining
what we have decided.  Vacations, large purchases for the home where older
still works, and other big purchases - even sleepaway camp for my son, have
been eliminated.  For vacations we take short jaunts.  For camp, we chose a
day camp over sleepaway.  We do not deny, just minimize and limit.  If the
trip is a sibs chasuna or bar/bat-mitzvah, that's different than
"I-want-itis".  My kids are being raised that we cannot always keep up with
the joneses.  They aren't always happy with me, but "kacha".

chag kasher v'sameach
shaya goldmeier


From: David Mescheloff <david_mescheloff@...>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 06:08:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Supplement to the Haggada

Sammy Finkelman wrote:

> The following quotation I think (it's not 100% clear to me) is taken
> from the Supplement.

>> The haggada has us continue to tell the story of our Exodus from
>> Egypt by reading ... verses from the speech of
>> gratitude to G-d that is to be recited by the person who brings his
>> first fruits to the Temple in Jerusalem ...

The quotation Sammy brought is not from the proposed supplement to the
haggada, but from part of the background explanation.  The supplement,
in Hebrew only, and for reading in Israel only, consists of the pasuk
from parshat "arami oved avi": "va-yevienu el hamakom hazeh, va-yiten
lanu et ha-aretz ha-zot, eretz zavat chalav u-devash", followed by
breaking the pasuk into its three component phrases, with appropriate
d'rashot chazal (or references to other pesukim in Tanach) on each

I am deeply gratified by the reception the supplement has received
 across Israel.

Chag Kasher v'Sameach.

David Mescheloff


From: Ilana G Lieberson <lieberso@...>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:27:33 -0400
Subject: Survivor: Israel - Program for High School Seniors headed to Israel

Special Program for High School Seniors headed to Israel and their


High School Seniors and their parents are invited to Yeshiva University
on the evening of THURSDAY APRIL 27TH to participate in workshops lead
by entertaining and compelling speakers; meet your future peers; sign up
for cell phones; arrange for sheets and blankets to be delivered to your
Yeshiva/Seminary in Israel - and much more!

5:00 pm
Vendor Fair
Buy items you will need next year, eat Israeli food and test your Israel
knowledge in JEWPARDY

6:30 PM
Workshop #1
Some thinking and talking about next year
10th, 11th & 12th Floors, Belfer Hall

7:15 PM 
Workshop #2
Some more thinking and talking
10th, 11th & 12th Floors, Belfer Hall

8:00 PM
Exciting activity for parents and students
10th, 11th & 12th Floors, & Weissberg Commons, Belfer Hall

8:40 PM
Weissberg Commons, Belfer Hall

9:00 PM 
Thanks for coming!!

Contact Aaron Gavant; AMODS Program Coordinator 212-960-5266
Lisa Grundman; The Orthodox Caucus Program Coordinator 212-960-0064

This event is sponsored by Yeshiva University, The Association of Modern
Orthodox Day Schools, Yavneh Olami and the Orthodox Caucus


From: Lectures <lectures@...>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 23:52:29 -0400
Subject: Torah For Pesach from YUTorah.org!

Yeshiva University
is proud to present

A collection of Shiurim and materials to enhance your Pesach, including:
~ Divrei Torah from our Roshei Yeshiva
~ Halachic Overview of Pesach related issues
~ Daf Yomi Insights for the Dapim covered over Pesach
~ Interactive Family Seder Programs

Download PESACH TO GO at www.yutorah.org/pesach.cfm and be prepared for
a meaningful Pesach!

PESACH TO GO is a project of www.yutorah.org, Yeshiva University's
online home for Torah, where you can find thousands of Shiurim from
throughout the years


End of Volume 51 Issue 97