Volume 52 Number 37
                    Produced: Fri Jun 30  6:07:58 EDT 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Airline Meals - During 9 days
         [Stephen Colman]
Airline Meals during the Nine Days
         [Ari Trachtenberg]
Awareness of kosher needs -- was airline meals
         [Carl Singer]
Beis Yaakov
         [Perets Mett]
Disproportionate emotional impact (2)
         [Ben Katz, W. Baker]
El Al question (3)
         [Ira L. Jacobson, Rose Landowne, Avinoam Bitton]
Kashrut Ignorance
         [Batya Medad]
Naming of Children getting Converted (2)
         [Rabbi Wise, Sarah Beck]
Siddur Ergonomics
Z'man Shacharit
         [Shimon Lebowitz]


From: <stephencolman2@...> (Stephen Colman)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:21:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Airline Meals - During 9 days

> All kidding aside, bring a peanut butter sandwich -- or if washing is
> difficult, some cheese sticks and fruit Maybe a candy bar or three.

BEWARE of fellow passengers with nut allergies - peanut butter
sandwiches could be fatal. I have just returned from leading a small
school trip from London to Israel, and in our small group of 14
10/11-year olds were 3 children with severe nut allergies who carried
epi-pens. We had to be very careful of what they ate and who they sat
next to on the flight. In fact El Al were very helpful in moving
passengers around so that the 3 could sit next to each other and also
advised us that they have just started a 'nut-free' flight if you advise
them about 3 weeks before you fly.

Perhaps good old egg sandwiches may be safer all round.



From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:07:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Airline Meals during the Nine Days

> From: Sholom Parnes <merbe@...>
> I can't agree more with Zvi Stein that the intricacies of kashrut are
> just to hard for the average airline employee to grasp.

I had a friend who ordered a kosher meal over Passover and received an
(otherwise kosher) chametz meal (complete with a bread roll, if I recall

Ari Trachtenberg,                                      Boston University
http://people.bu.edu/trachten                    mailto:<trachten@...>


From: <casinger@...> (Carl Singer)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:05:42 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Awareness of kosher needs -- was airline meals

I think [the examples from airline kosher incidents (Mod)] are
worthwhile illustrations -- we presume the non-observant and the
non-Jewish world is aware (grossly or with intricacies) of the needs of
the kosher consumer (diner.)  That just ain't so -- especially away from
certain urban pockets like NYC.  Certainly there some in the food
business who are aware -- but for the most part, no.

I recall people being upset when the waiter removed the double foil for
them, as if the waiter, serving tens of meals at a busy dinner is
supposed to know ....

Yesterday I had a wonderful experience.  I was at a formal dinner and
had pre-arranged with my hosts for a kosher meal.  I got a magnificent
meal (thank you Park East Caterers - and the Metropolitan Club.)  It
came as three separate plated (and sealed) servings.  Salad, entree and
dessert.  They even had kosher wine for me!  But then again (and I won't
say where) on other occasions I've gotten a "TV Dinner" type meal that
consisted of 1/2 a chicken leg, etc. -- poorly cooked and terribly

Peanut butter -- never leave home without it.

Carl A. Singer, Ph.D.


From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:09:03 +0100
Subject: Beis Yaakov

Joel Rich wrote:

> See http://www.tzemachdovid.org/gedolim/jo/tworld/schenirer.html
> (Jewish Observer article) - seems like no psak/reason was given to
> allow this earthshaking change other than bracha vhatzklacha from the
> Belzer Rebbe???????

"The renowned Rabbi Meier Shapiro - then Rav in Glina, later Rav and
Rosh Yeshivah in Lublin - visited her school, which had grown to 280
students. He was so impressed that he immediately suggested that she
organize a seminary. "

Not just a psak, but an instruction to open a seminary.

"But in the end, the psak and appeal of the Chofetz Chaim helped her
succeed in her endeavors."



From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:33:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Disproportionate emotional impact

>From: Joseph Ginzberg <jgbiz120@...>
>I have long wondered at the oddity of people's disproportionate
>emotional reactions to certain halachic issues, and this has been highly
>visible here lately with the interminable discussion of women and
>Why is eating ham or bacon so much "worse" than eating shrimp or

         The Bible already speaks disparagingly about pigs (eg maale
minha dam chazir)

>Why is marrying "out" so much less acceptable than, say, chilul shabbat?
>Why is a womans wearing slacks or her style of hair-covering so much
>more important than her level of knowledge or committment to kashruth or

         Because they are external

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614
e-mail: <bkatz@...>

From: W. Baker <wbaker@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:08:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Disproportionate emotional impact

> From: Carl A. Singer <casinger@...>
>> I have long wondered at the oddity of people's disproportionate
>> emotional reactions to certain halachic issues, and this has been highly
>> visible here lately with the interminable discussion of women and
>> kaddish.
> I think the label is the key -- "emotional"
> We do very poorly when we try to evaluate or respond to "emotional"
> issues with logical solutions.
> I certainly don't have real data -- only vignettes -- but I find that
> people who are infrequent daveners, say for example those who we see
> only on Yom Tov or Yahrzeit - have packed so much emotion into their
> infrequent shul attendance that they may be ready to boil over (good or
> bad) at the drop of a feather 
> I had a co-worker who wouldn't put ice cream in his freezer (with meats)
> -- he didn't keep kosher, Shabbos or attend davening, but this one
> emotional thread linked him to his grandmother.

We should actually be glad of these odd emotional responses, even the 
person who wont eat pork, but eats shrimp, etc.  any connection to one's 
Jewish roots of heritage is good and can be the spark that encourages 
someone, or someone's children to begin to look for a greater involvement. 
In my own case, being given a kiddush cup that belongesd to my Great 
Grandfather was the impetius for starting to say kidush on Friday nights.  I 
started to light candles,  and we made a simple bracha over the wine and 
the bread and our baby, Jonathan, then 2 yers old, loved watching the 
candles.  I havn't missed a Shabbat since and have moved far further along 
the observance trail.

Encouraging emotional connection, even to little things, is vitally 
important in this world with so many other paths people can choose to 

Wendy Baker


From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 16:40:11 +0300
Subject: Re: El Al question

Alan Friedenberg <elshpen@...> stated:

      My daughter left yesterday from Newark for her long awaited summer
      in EY.  She asked me an interesting question.  How do Cohanim know
      if there is a "niftar" on board a particular plane?  What
      arrangements are made for any Cohanim who may be flying on that

A friend of mine used to travel on Tower Air rather than El Al for the
very reason that Tower did not carry corpses.  Now that alternative is
not available, of course.

IRA L. JACOBSON         

From: <ROSELANDOW@...> (Rose Landowne)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:29:40 EDT
Subject: Re: El Al question

If you ask in advance, El Al will call and let you know. I don't know
what arrangements they will make for you to change flights though. I
assume they will let you do it for free.

Rose Landowne

From: Avinoam Bitton <kislev@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:00:37 -0400
Subject: Re: El Al question

>From experience when my father a'h was niftar, a box was constructed
around the aron with a high "roof", creating an ohel that would allow
Cohanim to remain onboard.

Avinoam Bitton 


From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:51:55 +0200
Subject: Re: Kashrut Ignorance

Take for granted that if you ask if there's something kosher and mention
fish, reminding about the no pork, you'll get the sort of answers that
were mocked in the last mj.

Please understand that most, and I'm talking in the 98%, not 51% of
people will have no idea.  They don't know terminology, and they don't
know halacha.  Be very specific, like:
 *  are there any fresh fruit, uncut, and please don't cut it?
 *  Do you have any yogurts left over from breakfast? (for those who
    aren't makpid on chalav yisrael)
 *  bags of pretzels?  in the states most are ou
 *  think of whatever packaged food they may have

http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/ ; http://me-ander.blogspot.com/
http://samizdatblogfree.blogspot.com/ ; http://shilohpics.blogspot.com/


From: <Meirhwise@...> (Rabbi Wise)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:34:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Naming of Children getting Converted

Am I missing something but how does being called ben Avraham or Bat
Sarah indicate a conversion?

In the ketuba it is writtten ben/bat Avraham Avinu alav hashalom but the
Avinu alav hashalom is not read out.

Rabbi Wise

From: Sarah Beck <beckse@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:53:06 -0400
Subject: Naming of Children getting Converted

Although I of course support converts' right to present themselves how
they will, efforts to conceal a proud heritage--descended from the
best!--irritate me almost as much as the "yeshivaleit" who try to hide
the nice Conservative parents in South Orange.

There should be a frum children's book of the "I was Adopted" variety,
explaining that everyone has a dad who loves them, but only some kids
are lucky enough to have AVRAHAM AVINU himself in their patronymic.

But don't even start me on "hakallah habesulah" on wedding
invitations. There's such a thing as too much transparency. ;-)

Sara Meira bat Avraham Avinu


From: .cp. <chips@...>
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:36:29 -0700
Subject: re: Siddur Ergonomics

> It dawned on me this morning at Shacharis that several of my fellow
> daveners were bobbing their heads up and down during that portion of
> tachnun where they were trying to lay their heads down.
> The reason is rather simple, the siddur that they were using has that
> portion of tachnun across two pages and necessitates turning a page in
> order to complete the entire tefillah. 

When I went pocket siddur shopping about 5 years ago, I ended up empty
handed since no pocket siddur had the tachanuns first section on one
page. For a pocket siddur , this is especially vexing.

I think Rinas Yisroel has both on one page,


From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:46:15 +0300
Subject: Re: Z'man Shacharit

Mark Symons <msymons@...> asked:
> Is there an opinion that allows shacharit till chatzot( noon)?

The Shulchan `Aruch O.H. 89:1 says (my translation):

If he erred or transgressed (Mishna Berura [6]: i.e. deliberately
delayed prayer until after its time) and prayed after four [relative]
hours until noon, even though he does not have the reward of prayer in
its time, there is still reward for prayer.

The MB goes on to point out that if a person finds himself after the
proper time he must pray "lechatchila".  (as a first choice of action?)

Shimon Lebowitz                           mailto:<shimonl@...>
Jerusalem, Israel            PGP: http://www.poboxes.com/shimonpgp


End of Volume 52 Issue 37