Volume 52 Number 67
                    Produced: Sun Sep 10 22:47:15 EDT 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

160 Pictures of Wednesday's Aliyah
         [Jacob Richman]
Dairy bread
         [David Ziants]
DRISHA classes: Early Registration Discount Extended
         [Freda B Birnbaum]
Lo Tasur
         [Alex Heppenheimer]
Lost and Found Advice
         [Esther & Sholom Parnes]
Treifah Story
         [Alex Heppenheimer]


From: Jacob Richman <jrichman@...>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 05:08:48 +0200
Subject: 160 Pictures of Wednesday's Aliyah

Hi Everyone!

Congratulations to the 240 olim who made aliyah on Wednesday
from the USA and Canada.

Jonathan Stein (thanks!) who was on the aliyah flight, sent me 
pictures of the new olim. I posted on my website articles about 
the exciting event and 160 pictures in a gallery format. 

When the first page appears, press the F11 key 
to view the full length of the pictures. To move from page to page, 
use the navigation buttons on the bottom of the screen.

The address of the articles and pictures is:

(hold the control key and press F5 if you do not see September 8
on the top of the page)

Please forward this message to relatives and friends so they can also
enjoy viewing the pictures of this special event.

Shabbat Shalom,

[My thanks as well to Jonathan Stein, as there are a few pictures in the
gallery of my children, grand-daughter and (as a guest) my
sister-in-law. My wishes of Hatzlochah for all the new Olim!
Avi Feldblum, Mod.]


From: David Ziants <dziants@...>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:43:40 +0200
Subject: Re: Dairy bread

I was involved in this discussion as well on mail-jewish, and gave
specific mention to the type of bakery you are talking about (which by
the way in Jerusalem and Ma'aleh Adumim has a "mehadrin" hechsher).

It seems that the bottom line is that b'cheskat chalavi bread is a much
lighter status then real chalavi bread (which shouldn't be baked).  For
example, there is nothing wrong with eating such bread between basari
(meat) courses at the shabbat meal, just not at the same time as the
meat. This is the halacha for ashkenazim and it is more a status of
minhag then strict halacha, and I understand that sephardim can be even
more lenient (do they call this bread completely parev?).

With discussion with a few subscribers, it seems that there are some
ashkenazi authorities who are lenient with today's ovens. In Israel,
though the ashkenazi custom is to be strict. I don't know whether this
has ramifications on our subject.

David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim


From: Freda B Birnbaum <fbb6@...>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:28:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: DRISHA classes: Early Registration Discount Extended

This stuff looks great.  Hope to see some of you there!

Freda Birnbaum

   ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Judith Tenzer <jtenzer@...>

10% Class Registration Discount Extended to September 11

Next Monday, September 11, the fall semester begins at Drisha Institute
with daytime and evening classes for women, men, and Bat Mitzvah girls
and their families.

Bat Mitzvah Workshop and Classes

* Speech, Speech! A Bat Mitzvah Workshop for the Family - Sunday,
September 17, 10:30 a.m.-12:30 p.m. - Free; includes light lunch;
limited to 25 registrants; register by September 12.

* Our Mothers, Ourselves - Sunday, 10:30 a.m.- 12:00 noon - begins
October 22, 5 sessions; for the Bat Mitzvah and her mother or learning
partner; $250 Register by October 15.

* The Shema and Its Blessings - Sunday, 10:30 a.m.-12:00 noon, begins
January 21, 4 sessions; for the Bat Mitzvah and her mother or learning
partner; $200 Register by January 15.

Register today 212.595.0307 or <inquiry@...>

High Holy Day Programs

* The Stanley Rudoff Memorial High Holy Day Lecture Series

Rosh HaShana and the Duality of Existence: Two Accounts of Creation
Norman Meskin - Sunday, September 17, 6:30-7:30 p.m. Free

Awaken: A Maimonidean Imperative
David Flatto - Sunday, September 17, 8:00-9:00 p.m. Free

Ani Ledodi Vedodi Li: Forgiveness, Atonement and Humility
Biti Roi, Tuesday, September 26, 7:30p.m. Free

* The Renee and Alexander Bohm Memorial Lecture

Repentance and Free Will
David Shatz - Monday, September 18, 7:30 p.m. Free.
Followed by private reception, by invitation only, for Friends of

* Daytime and Evening High Holy Day Classes with Alan Brill, Zvi Grumet,
Nathaniel Helfgot, Jenny Labendz, Joanna Samuels.  Register for classes
today 212.595.0307 or <inquiry@...>

Reserve High Holy Day seats at Drisha minyan for $150 per person by
September 15

Daytime and Evening Classes begin September 11; Some Classes Coed

* Biblical Hebrew - three levels. Daytime: Yitzhak Berger; Evening:
Deena Grant

* Talmud - two levels. Daytime: Devorah Zlochower - Beginners; Wendy
Amsellem - Intermediate. Evening: Rachel Dulitz - Beginners; Shuli
Sandler - Intermediate

* Parshanut - three levels. Sarah Rudolph - Beginners; Rachel Friedman -
Intermediate, Advanced

* Bible - Daytime: David Silber - Samuel, Exodus; Rachel Friedman -
Parashat HaShavua. Evening: Nathaniel Helfgot - Isaiah, Vayikra

* Jewish Law - Daytime: Moshe Kahn - The Shabbat Kitchen; Daniel Reifman
- Organ Donation and Cosmetic Surgery. Evening: Moshe Kahn - Hilkhot
Kashrut; Menahem Meier - Jewish Family Law; Daniel Reifman - The Shabbos

* Philosophy/Liturgy: Alan Brill - Philosophy of Prayer

Register by September 11 and save 10% - 212.595.0307 or
<inquiry@...> -

One-time Classes - Day and Evening - Most Coed

* Renee Septimus - Deconstructing Mikvah: An (Un) Orthodox Perspective -
Tuesday, October 24, 6:00-7:30 p.m. For women only. Free

* Elliott Rabin - Reluctant Heroes of the Bible - Thursday, October 26,
12:30-2:00 p.m. $15 (includes lunch)

* Menachem Leibtag - How Jewish Were Our Forefathers? - Monday, November
6, 12:30-2:00 p.m. $30 (includes lunch)

* Jerome Chanes - The Netziv, Rabbi Soloveitchik, and Rav Hutner: Three
Gedolim on Public Affairs and Da'as Torah - Thursday, November 9,
12:30-2:00 p.m.  $30 (includes lunch)

* Renee Septimus - T'chines: Women Talk to God - Tuesday, November 28,
6:00-7:30 p.m. $25

* Jenny Labendz - Why We Celebrate Chanukah, and Why There Is No
Straight Answer to That Question - Tuesday, December 12, 6:00-7:00 p.m.

Register now - 212.595.0307 -

Engaged Couples learning

Sameach TeSamach Re'im Ahuvim: Let the Loving Couple Rejoice - Shuli and
Ben Sandler will teach this course, with one session on concrete ideas
for spousal communication led by psychologist Dr. Esther
Altmann. Monday, 7:00-9:00 p.m., seven sessions beginning October
30. $360 per couple.

Register today 212.595.0307 or <inquiry@...> -

Drisha Social Justice Committee

The student-led Social Justice Committee at Drisha urges the public to
attend the "SAVE DARFUR NOW: Voice to Stop Genocide" rally at East
Meadow of Central Park in Manhattan on Sunday, September 17, from 2-5pm.

We look forward to seeing you at Drisha next week.  On behalf of Rabbi
Silber and all of us at Drisha, we wish you and your family a healthy
and happy New Year, and blessings of peace on Israel.

Judith Tenzer
Drisha Institute
email: <jtenzer@...>
web: http://www.drisha.org
Drisha Institute | 37 West 65th Street | New York | NY | 10023


From: Alex Heppenheimer <aheppenh@...>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 07:36:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Lo Tasur

In MJ 52:64, Joel Rich asked:

> We're all familiar with Rashi's statement that even if they tell you
> that right is left you have to listen(Devarim 17:11). AIUI the
> supercommentaries understand Rashi to mean this literally, i.e. that
> the ruling of Bet Din establishes halachik reality for all.  Has
> anyone seen a reconciliation of this position with the mishneh in
> Horiyot which states that a member of bet din or talmid raui
> lhoraah(student worthy of being a judge) can not rely on bet din and
> if he acts on bet din's ruling, knowing it's wrong, he's guilty
> (according to rashi of misunderstanding the meaning of lshmoa dvrei
> chachamim-listening to the words of the sages)

In 52:65, R' Meir Wise commented:

> To Joel Reich - the text in the Yerushalmi is "if they tell you that
> right is right and left is left" which does away with all the
> problems. Having said that it is true that Rashi and all who followed
> him accepted the text as we have it in the Bavli.

I think I recall seeing an answer somewhat as follows:

The case in Horios is where the Sanhedrin erroneously ruled that
something that's really prohibited is permitted (e.g., that a certain
type of cheilev [hard fat] may be eaten). They didn't say, though, that
it's a mitzvah to eat it! So a judge, or a prospective one, who knows
that the Sanhedrin was wrong shouldn't go and pasken otherwise (that
would make him a zakein mamrei [rebellious elder - see Deut. 17:12-13]),
but he can well refrain from eating the cheilev himself (without saying
openly that he's doing so because he disagrees with the Sanhedrin).

The expression about "even if they say right is left" could then refer,
for example, to a case where the Sanhedrin paskens that we should
refrain from performing a mitzvah (such as not blowing shofar or taking
lulav and esrog when the respective days fall on Shabbos): even if an
individual judge knows that this is incorrect, he still has to follow
their decision, because it's a passive act (shev ve'al taaseh).

It could also refer to a case where they revoke an earlier Rabbinical
enactment (such as the ban on non-Jewish olive oil, Avodah Zarah 2:6):
in that case, since there's no possibility of having to bring a korban
even if it turns out that the Sanhedrin was wrong after all, everyone
has to follow their decision. (See Yerushalmi Avodah Zarah 2:8, where
Shmuel (figuratively) calls Rav a "zakein mamrei" for declining to use
such oil after the revocation, and ultimately forces him to swallow his
objections and eat it.)

Kol tuv,


From: Esther & Sholom Parnes <merbe@...>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:30:55 +0200
Subject: Lost and Found Advice

Do any MJ'ers know of any lost and found lists that cater particularly
to the Jewish Orthodox crowd?

Specifically, I am looking for leads to return a siddur that I found.

The siddur has the name "Shlomo Yaakov Segal" written in English in a
child's handwriting.  No address. No phone number.

Anyone recognize this name ?



From: Alex Heppenheimer <aheppenh@...>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 07:05:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Treifah Story

In MJ 52:65, Joel Rich wrote:

> I was listening to a tape of a certain Rabbi who told over a story
> about the Chazon Ish telling someone in Israel not to be treated in
> Europe because the injury he had was considered a treifah by the Rama
> but not the mechaber and since we hold like the rama in Europe this
> would determine the outcome.  I had heard the story before but not in
> the name of the Chazon Ish. I'm pretty sure the Chazon Ish held that
> the status of treifot was determined at matan torah (or thereabouts)
> and that even if an animal with such a wound is now known to be able
> to survive, we still consider it a treifah (i.e.  halachik stats is
> not determined by physical reality) Seems a bit fishy :-)

Sippurei Chassidim (by R' S.Y. Zevin) cites this story about R' Eliyahu
Yosef of Drivin, a prominent 19th-century Chabad rav.  The story there
is that he suffered from a disease which, in an animal, would make it
treif according to the Rema but kosher according to the Beis Yosef, so
he decided to move to Eretz Yisrael (no mention of where to be treated,
though), where the Beis Yosef's view held sway.

As for the Chazon Ish's position: true that he holds (as does the
Rambam, Hil. Shechitah 10:12-13) that the definition of treifos is
unalterable by modern medicine (and more generally, that reality is
determined by halachah - see Yerushalmi Nedarim 6:8). On the other hand,
though, it's my understanding that he holds that only opinions and
sources that have been subject to "peer review" are meaningful in
deciding halachah (thus, for example, he was not in favor of using old
manuscripts of unknown provenance); this is based on a Gemara, Yevamos
102a, that we would reject a statement from Eliyahu HaNavi if it would
contradict accepted practice.

If my understanding is correct, then there's not necessarily a
contradiction between the Chazon Ish's position and the story above:
both the Beis Yosef's and the Rema's opinions went through the halachic
"peer review" process, and emerged as the accepted opinions in their
parts of the Jewish world, so both of them are valid. (Though I have no
idea whether the Chazon Ish would accept a geographical distinction: he
might well hold that halachic reality for an Ashkenazi - regardless of
where s/he lives - is always in accordance with the Rema, and similarly
for a Sephardi and the Beis Yosef, so that the fellow in the story would
be no better off in Eretz Yisrael than in Europe.)

Kol tuv,


End of Volume 52 Issue 67