Volume 52 Number 78
                    Produced: Fri Sep 22  6:08:22 EDT 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Abbi Adest]
         [Avi Feldblum of Shammash.Org]
Bubbe mayseh?
Dutch has been added to Learn Hebrew with audio website
         [Jacob Richman]
Monsey Meat Debacle
         [Perry Dane]
         [Michael Kopinsky]
Nusach Ari
         [Joseph Ginzberg]
Restriction to bnei brith in bentshn
         [Perets Mett]
         [Bernard Raab]
Tunes, Tunes and more tunes
         [Art Werschulz]
Waltzing Matilda
         [S. Wise]
"Why is no one today named "Abaya"?
         [Freda B Birnbaum]


From: Abbi Adest <abbi.adest@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:44:50 +0300
Subject: Re: Abaye

Rabbi Silber's son is biologically his. (Abaye was a student of mine
years ago). I think they probably named him after the Talmud scholar's
personality, not a literal translation of the name.

Abbi Adest


From: Avi Feldblum of Shammash.Org <feldblum@...>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 05:45:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Administrivia

Hello to all members of the list.

I would like to take this opportunity to wish a Shana Tova to all the
members of the list, and wishes for a good and healthy year together!

Avi Feldblum


From: SBA <sba@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:00:51 +1000
Subject: Bubbe mayseh?

From: Richard Schultz <schultr@...>
> There was a report that one rabbi had said that the incident was a
> punishment for people's having said bad things about other
> "Ultra-Orthodox sects."  If the rabbi actually said that, or something
> that translates into English as that, then I would include him in my
> statement as well.  (It's not okay to say bad things about charedim,
> but it is okay to say bad things about everyone else???)

Can you please reveal where was there such a report?  I have been
following the Monsey meat story from day 1, via the net and otherwise -
and haven't seen anything like it.

As to the tone of your post maybe I should comment:

"It's okay to say bad things about charedim, but it is not okay to say
bad things about everyone else???



From: Jacob Richman <jrichman@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:35:47 +0200
Subject: Dutch has been added to Learn Hebrew with audio website

Hi Everyone!

Today I added Dutch (menu, translations and  transliterations) 
to the Learn Hebrew site at:

Learn Hebrew is a free, on-line, educational resource to learn Hebrew
words. The flash site incorporates 46 topics, along with over 1,700
Hebrew words and phrases. Each Hebrew word is presented as an image with
nikud [vowels]. When you click on a word, or phrase, you can hear it
spoken. The high quality audio was created in a sound studio.

The site is multilingual. The menus, transliterations and translations
are in five languages: English, French, Russian, Spanish and Dutch.

Both the student and the teacher will find the site easy to use and very
educational. As mentioned, the site is free to all.

Feedback (in English) is welcome.

Please forward this message to others who may be interested in learning
Hebrew. Thank you!

Shana Tova - Have a Good Year,


From: Perry Dane <dane@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:12:24 -0400
Subject: Monsey Meat Debacle

>I saw a particularly poignant bit about this somewhere, where a
>Holocaust survivor who almost starved in the camps because he wouldn't
>touch non-kosher meat (not that much would have been available!),
>crying, why me, why does it come to pass that I am eating this
>butcher's meat?

         Yes, this is poignant, but partly because this man seems to be
succumbing to what some people call "halakhic realism," the view that
halakhic categories such as "kosher" and "non-kosher" imply a "real"
spiritual difference between kosher and non-kosher food, so that eating
non-kosher food is somehow spiritually corrupting in and of itself.  The
better view, as hazal emphasized on the whole, is that the halakhah is
about obeying a set of rules, not about the "reality" of food or other
things.  As long as this man was following the rules, and eating meat
that, according to the rules, he had every right to believe was kosher,
he was keeping kosher.  Period.  Yes, he might need to re-kasher his
pots and pans now.  Those are the rules too.  But his conscience, and
his sense of spiritually integrity, should be absolutely clear.

         By the way, the meals in the concentration camps often did
include meat -- tiny bits of meat (in thin soup), and often bad or
rotten meat, including horse-meat, but meat nevertheless.  Someone in
the camps who was too scrupulous about trying to avoid all non-kosher
meat might well have "almost starved" to the point of endangering his
own life.  Depending on the exact circumstances, he might even have been
violating the halakhah.  Enough said.



From: Michael Kopinsky <mkopinsky@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:21:10 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Niggunim

> ...a midrash that every tune that the world would ever hear was sung
> in the Bet Hamikdash.

I thought you were going to say that every tune the world would ever
hear has been set to shir hama'alos...

Michael Y. Kopinsky


From: Joseph Ginzberg <jgbiz120@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:12:24 -0400
Subject: Nusach Ari

> The nusach we 'switched to' was actually determined by research
> conducted by the Rav, Ba'al HaShulchan Aruch, and Ba'al HaTanya, aka
> the Alter Rebbe, Rav S.Z. of Liadi. He examined countless siddurim to
> arrive at an authentic nusach, correct scribal errors, and, when
> applicable, choose between 2 halachically equal decisions based on the
> kabbalistic teachings of the Arizal AND STATEMENTS MADE IN CHAZAL. I
> once heard a short lecture from a talmid at the Mir who ONLY davens
> from theCHabad siddur- a switch he made after learning in-depth what
> the Gemorra says on tefillah.  His reason? Because (his words) "if you
> really know the halacha, its impossible to make yourself daven from
> any other siddur. They don't make sense."

I have waited weeks for someone else to coment on this, not wanting my
biases to perhaps influence my comments, but since no one has seen fit
to do so, I feel I must.

Why is okay for one to ascribe to ANY Rabbi the ultimate authority
ability, to be able to make a decision that most of orthodox Judaism
does NOT accept, and yet have this accepted withot comment?

I have no personal knowledge of the Alter Rebbe's research or even
abilities, yet I can certainly say that in the hundreds of years since
his alleged "decision", virtually none of the world's yeshiva's have
switched to that nusach, and almost none of the Torah leaders outside of
Chabad have done so, either.

The Chid"a (Rabbi Chaim David Azulai) wrote that it is forbidden to
daven nusach Ari because of "Yuhara". An entire volume, the Vikucha
Rabba (he Great debate), was written on this subject by Binyomin Zev of
Slonim, a student of the Vilna Gaon. His result is a foregone conclusion

The Chabad rabbinate has a history of making decisions that fly in the
face of chassidus, specifically that they change traditions, supposedly
anathema to chassidim. They did so with the rebbe wearing a shtreimel,
with wearing a silver collar on the tallis, and with sleeping in the
sukka, and with eating seuda shlishis, all things that in traditional
chassidus carry heavy import.

I certainly have no intention of saying that they don't have that right,
but I do believe that given the importance of these issues, one has a
responsibility to stand up and say "that's okay for you, but don't make
it an absolute". Failure to protest their deification of their deceased
Rebbe has certainly been a major causitive factor in the fiasco of
messianic insanity we are all witnessing to our communal shame.

If indeed the Alter Rebbe decided that Nusach Ari is the "right" one, he
was a single voice, and few other Rabbi's agreed with him.

Shana Tova U'mevoreches, all.
Yossi Ginzberg


From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:03:07 +0100
Subject: Restriction to bnei brith in bentshn

  Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <Sabba.Hillel@...> wrote:
> From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
> Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz wrote:
>> I have been told that "kol bnai bris b'makom hazeh" is a valid
>> formulation.
> Why would one go to the effort of excluding the non-Jews? Why not just
> bless everyone?

The nusach of bentshn includes the words "kein yevoreikh osonu kulone

In the Rabbi Yaakov Emden siddur the words bnei vris are inserted
between osonu and kulonu, to be said when not all present are Jewish.

This applies wherever bentshn is being said, whether indoors or

Wishing all a ksivo vachasimo tovo
Perets Mett


From: Bernard Raab <beraab@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 00:56:51 -0400
Subject: Tunes

>From: Joel Rich I was listening to an Aish shiur where the speaker
>quoted someone as saying that classical music was based on Gregorian
>chants which were likely influenced by the Levite's songs and thus
>"closer" to Jewish music. Any thoughts?

Gregorian chants were perhaps the earliest forms of classical music in
the medieval period (before 1400 CE), but there have been 600 years of
musical development since then along a variety of different paths. To
say that they are all based on the Gregorian chants is a little like
saying that all literature is based on the Bible.  

KVCh"T--Bernie R.


From: Art Werschulz <agw@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:50:35 -0400
Subject: Tunes, Tunes and more tunes

Mark Symons <msymons@...> wrote:

> I'm pleasantly surprised, not to mention very impressed, that
> non-Australians know of Waltzing Matilda - although it's our unofficial
> national anthem - let alone knowing all the words.
> (I like singing Shir Hama'alot to it, but my wife doesn't!)

A few years back, one of our shul members was visiting Tokyo for a
conference.  On Shabbat at thte shul, when it came time for birkat
hamazon, they sang Shir HaMa'alot to the tune of "Waltzing Matilda".

I guess "Waltzing Matilda" is a traditional Japanese melody. :-)

Art Werschulz (8-{)}   "Metaphors be with you."  -- bumper sticker
Internet: agw STRUDEL cs.columbia.edu


From: <smwise3@...> (S. Wise)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:36:08 -0400
Subject: Waltzing Matilda

>  When I was in publicgrade school, Ilearned it in music as a one of many
> international folk songs. I still remember tjhe words and their English
> meaning. I agree with your wife. And for Shalom Bayis, you definitely
> should go along with your wife on this.


From: Freda B Birnbaum <fbb6@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:16:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: "Why is no one today named "Abaya"?

>> [someone wrote] "Why is no one today named "Abaya"?
>> Rabbi Dovid Silber of Drisha has a son named Abaye.
> A natural son or an adoptee?
> Abaye's real name was "Nachmeinu". (Shabbos 33 and 74) He was an orphan 
> adopted by Rabba bar Nachmenu who named him after his father. The name 
> Abaye alludes to this - being roshei teivos 'asher becho yerucham 
> yosom'.  (From Seder Hadoros)

Biological son.

Interestingly, no one today names a son Ishmael, but one of the major
biggies of the Talmud was Rabbi Ishmael.

Freda Birnbaum


End of Volume 52 Issue 78