Volume 52 Number 85
                    Produced: Wed Oct  4  6:24:43 EDT 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Another approach to Kosher Food
         [Jack Gross]
         [R. Meir Wise]
Bug Alert from the CRC (Chicago)
         [Gershon Dubin]
Fear of punishment
         [Tzvi Stein]
Killing Insects
         [Yair Horowitz]
Molad Calculation
         [Abe Brot]
Monsey Meat Debacle
Not the Jewish Press
Punishment and Suffering
         [Russell J Hendel]
Reciting tehillim for crises
         [David Maslow]
Suffering (2)
         [Jeanette Friedman, Avi Feldblum]
Understanding punishment
         [Joseph Ginzberg]
YK Niggunim
         [Gamoran, Sam]


From: Jack Gross <jbgross@...>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 22:53:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Another approach to Kosher Food

From: Dr. Josh Backon <backon@...>
> In Israel, one can obtain real Beit Yosef glatt beef for 24 NIS/kg
> [$2.50/lb]. 

-- Stop right there.  The FX rate is 4.3 NIS/USD


From: <Meirhwise@...> (R. Meir Wise)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:58:04 EDT
Subject: Re: Ari

I do not know what Menashe Elyashiv is talking about. It is well known
that the Ari was an ashkenazi! Born in the Old City of Jerusalem in1534
to his father Reb Shlomo Luria Ashkenazi!

Many ashkenazim who later moved to sefardic communities were given this
appelation.  So Menashe have you got a different explanation?

Gmar Chatima Tova

Rabbi Meir Wise


From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:06:46 GMT
Subject: Bug Alert from the CRC (Chicago)

September 29, 2006
7 Tishrei 5767                                     

It has come to our attention that packages of barley, such as those used
for soup or cholent, may contain larva, insects or even live worms! This
problem is not isolated to any specific brand or store. It is strongly
suggested that each package of barley, or other similar grains, be
inspected prior to use.



From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:13:15 -0400
Subject: Fear of punishment

From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>

> In my experience, prayer is pretty much a one-way street. We ask and beg
> for all sorts of things, but it is exceedingly rare that someone gets a
> clear, unambiguous response. When Yom Kippur ends, I feel no joy that
> I've been forgiven, because I have no idea whether or not it is
> true. 
> ...
> But the fear of punishment continues, and I am usually trying to do
> better than I did last time. When I falter, if I don't see any immediate
> repercussions, it makes me even more worried about how many sins I'll
> need to work off in the next world. And the reverse as well - If I see
> no immediate blessing from my mitzvos, I have confidence that they're
> sitting in my account for later.
> Vice versa as well. When I do see a punishment, I'm comforted by knowing
> that I'm working off my debt, leaving less to pay later on.  And when
> good things happen to me, I worry if this will be deducted from my
> account in the next world.
> ...

Are you sure you are not "thinking too much"?  We are obligated to
believe: Hashem loves us.  He forgives.  Tshuva works. Yom Kippur
atones.  Hashem does not give us more than we can handle.  And we are
supposed to live life with joy!  Leave all the cheshbonos of reward and
punishment to Hashem.  That's His job, not yours.

Chill out, do your level best, and serve Hashem with joy.  Enjoy every
moment of the life He gave you.  Don't waste it with worrying.


From: <ggntor@...> (Yair Horowitz)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 18:11:18 -0400
Subject: Killing Insects

Does anyone know of tshuvot regarding killing insects? (Not on Shabbat.)

Thank you,
-Yair Horowitz


From: Abe Brot <abrot@...>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 22:20:04 +0300
Subject: Molad Calculation

Richard Fiedler states the arguement that since the molad of Tishrei is
always one or two days before the eidim could possibly see the new
crescent, therefore it is not logical to assume that we ever had an
"eidim-based system" to determine the new moon. (The new crescent was
first seen in Eretz-Yisrael this year on the evening preceding 3

If this is the case, why does Masechet Rosh Hashana deal with the
wittnesses, their obligations and their interogation? The Talmud
certainly gives the impression that the "eidim-based system" was used
all the time that the Sanhedrin existed.

Gmar Hatima Tova,

Abe Brot


From: <dovb@...> <dovb@netvision.net.il>
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:46:10 -0400
Subject: RE: Monsey Meat Debacle

Some posters seemed to be focusing on the butcher as the guilty party.
It would seem to me the Rav Hamachshir (supervising Rabbi) and the
mashgichim (kashrut supervisors) are at fault. This is their province,
what they get paid for!!!

It seemed it was very simple to determine the meat was traif once the
question was raised. So what were they the Rav Hamachshir and the
mashgichim doing for 10 years? They never checked the meat they were
supposed to be supervising in ten years? What were they being paid to

I guess a simple kosher hechsher (non glatt and with no hiddurim ) can
be better than glatt chickens with a super-frum hechsher - which are
simply "glatt-treif".


From: <Aliza123@...> (Aliza)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:14:38 EDT
Subject: Re: Not the Jewish Press

      Here is a piece we did in the 1979 parody NOT THE JEWISH

Oh my gosh - I remember those!  I think I still have some!!!!!!
Aliza in NY


From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:43:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Punishment and Suffering

There have been several postings on APPLYING the reward/punishment theme
to LINKING tragic events such as the holocast and sins such as reform

My approach would not be historical (Such R Blum's posting in v52n83)
but rather HALACHIC.

The Rambam in the laws of fasts makes it clear that a) There is a
Biblical obligation to VIEW and INTERPRET tragedies such as the holocast
as PUNISHMENTS DUE TO SINS. b) There is an obligation to decree a
communal fast day whose purpose is research into identifying the correct
link between the given punishment and the sins that caused it.

Since this is a halachik imperitive I think 1) We should stop asking IF
Judaism wants us linking the holocast to sins and instead ask 2a) HOW do
we correctly identify the sin that caused the holocase 2b) HOW do we
publicize this sin-holocast link---after all many people lost relatives
and families or themsevles were tortured in the holocast---how do we
present the findings to them in such a way that they are not excessively

R Blum makes interesting points in his posting. After all..the "obvious"
candidate for the punishment for German Jewry is their creation of
reform. But that seems inconsistent with the fact that the holocast
severity was greater in Poland. I would therefore think that discussion
of 1) and 2a,b) might yield, not necessarily an answer, but interesting
insights into HOW we are suppose to regard punishments.

Russell Jay Hendel; Ph.d.; A.S.A., http://www.Rashiyomi.com/


From: David Maslow <maslowd@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 13:48:24 -0400
Subject: Reciting tehillim for crises

Members of the MJ community have frequently been asked to recite
Tehillim for acutely ill individuals, and the Silver Spring community,
like many others, has unfortunately had emergency meetings to recite
Tehillim for similar reasons.  Of course, many synagogues have added the
saying of one or more chapters of Tehillim due to the serious situation
in Israel.

What is the halachic basis of such actions? Is there any Torah or
Talmudic source that can be pointed to as support for this beautiful

I raise this question because in the Jewish Times, an web-based weekly
publication of "authentic Jewish beliefs and practices," published by
Mesora.org, an article appeared (vol. 5, no 40; Sept. 15) that stated
that reciting Tehillim for the cure of another person is not a proper
Torah response under the prohibition against employing charms and
incantations. (see site for full discussion)

David E. Maslow


From: <FriedmanJ@...> (Jeanette Friedman)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 08:36:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Suffering

> Because of the latter purpose of directing the future of klal Yisroel,
> tzadikim are at times chosen to take on a burden of great suffering in
> order to effect a positive transformation for the Jewish people.
> Their suffering is particularly powerful in this regard precisely
> because of their merit.  These people understand this role and
> undertake it willingly.

So the 6,000,000 were all Tzadikim?  I know the 1.5 kinderlach were. But
this is indefensible.

The next time the antisemites show up to kill me, tho I am no Tzadik by
any standards, am I supposed to dance my way to death and rejoice in
being a chosen person?

Oy, please.


From: <feldblum@...> (Avi Feldblum)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006
Subject: Re: Suffering


I do not see the quoted material saying that "ALL Suffering" is part of
a tikun that is undertaken by / imposed on tzadikkim as creating a
transformation of Klal Yisrael. How to understand the Holocaust is a
major theological issue that will not be easily resolved. At the same
time, to deny the concept of tzadikim willingly undedrgoing suffering
for a purpose related to /impacting all of Klal Yisrael, is not
consistant with traditional Jewish halachic thought, as I under it.

For an example I just saw recently, in the Yom Kippur Machzor just put
out by my good friend Arnie Lustiger with the commentary based on the
writings of Rav Soloveichek, see his comments on the piyot of the 10



From: Joseph Ginzberg <jgbiz120@...>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:00:47 -0400
Subject: Understanding punishment

>Even on the literal level of understanding of emunah, we always find
>multiple dimensions of meaning.  Specifically with regard to the
>concept of punishment, there is a lot to learn.

I always understood that symbolic of Orthodox belief of the complexities
and impossibilities of human understanding of the Heavenly balance were
the "Arei Miklat", the cities of refuge, in Israel. Those forced to be
there by being guilty of manslaughter or negligence were all released on
the same day, which itself seemed totally random, being upon the death
of the Kohen Gadol. Yet a belief in fairness, both in terms of each
individual affected and in terms of the wrong being redressed, would
make that impossible if not for incredibly complex heavenly manuevering.

G'mar chasima tova to all.
Yossi Ginzberg


From: Gamoran, Sam <SGamoran@...>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 11:35:20 +0200
Subject: RE: YK Niggunim

> From: Mark Symons <msymons@...>

> It may be a bit late to ask, but does anyone have suggestions for good
> tunes for V'chol ma'aminim (I
> have heard or used Eli Atah v'odeka, Al kol eileh), Imru Leilokim (in
> Shachrit/ Musaf)? (I don't think waltzing matilda would be suitable!)

I apologize for the late response -in fact it is probably already Yom
Kippur in Melbourne but it took me a while to track down this

At our shul - Yad Moshe in Hashmonaim we had for the first time this
year a modest choir on second day Rosh Hashanah.  They rehearsed with
Zev Vindish who is a well known simcha band leader (and a member of the
Shul) and with the Shliach Tzibur for Musaf HaRav Meir Friedman.  They
mostly used familiar niggunim but they introduced a very inspiring new
Nigum dafka for v'Kol ma'aminim.  The original tune is a Russian folk
song with a name something like "My Russian Girl" which has been adapted
into an Israeli folk song and renamed "At Zorem Hanachal" - Slowly the
Stream Flows.  It adapts nicely to V'Kol Manaminim.  You can hear a clip
of it with the Hebrew folk words at:
http://www.imusic.co.il/album_details.asp?album_id=548 track number 9.
V'Kol Ma'aminim shehu... starts with the words in the clip.

Gmar Chatima Tova,
Sam Gamoran
Hashmonaim Israel


End of Volume 52 Issue 85