Volume 52 Number 98
                    Produced: Wed Nov  1  4:46:05 EST 2006

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Brandon Raff]
Grammar Question from Another List
         [Michael Poppers]
         [Joshua Goldmeier]
Powerful consolation it may be, but it is not based on the text
Rav Ovadya Yosef on mixed seating at weddings
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
         [Carl Singer]
Transferring shul's assets
         [B. A. Weil]


From: Brandon Raff <Brandon@...>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 23:22:18 +0200
Subject: Agunos

I received an email requesting one to pray for the following agunos:

Givon ben Itta Raiza (he should do teshuva and give a get)
Mazaltov bas Farcha
Yiscah bat Shoshanah (22 year old mom threatened with no Get till she's 65)

I have a few questions on this:

1. Is there any prescribed text that can be recited in Shul on Shabbat?
Can someone send it to me if there is.

2. I remember reading that in times gone by that if needed the Beth Din
would beat the errant husband until he would give his wife a get. Does
this happen these days? and if not, why?

3. How can one pray for someone to give a get or to do teshuva? Would
that not impact his bechira (free-will)?



From: <MPoppers@...> (Michael Poppers)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:23:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Grammar Question from Another List

In M-J V52#94, Janice Gelb quoted someone else's question a few days ago:

> ....In Gen. 2:23, in the second creation story, Adam says "l'zot
> yikarei ishah," usually translated something like "this one shall be
> called Woman."  However, the gender of the verb "yikarei" is
> masculine, while the pronoun (zot) and the predicate noun (ishah) are
> both feminine....I did not see this question addressed at all in any
> >of the following sources: Mikra'ot G'dolot, JPS Torah, Cassuto,
> Malbim, Speiser (Anchor Bible), or R.E.Friedman.  Indeed, the very
> fact that none of these sources even addresses the question makes me
> wonder whether there's a very simple grammatical reason.

Interestingly, someone else (prefacing his post with "An acquaintance of
mine posed the following question") posted this question on another
forum a few days before the date on Janice's post.  That same week, I
wrote the following in response (noting for this forum that ibn Ezra
usually is in Miqraos G'dolos prints):

Ibn Ezra ad loc. explains, "...v'ta'am 'yiqqarei'[20] al sheim[30]," to
which the "peirush" explains:
  FN 20: shehu lashon zachar
  FN 30: R'tzono lomar k'ilu nichtav, "yiqqarei *sh'mah* ishah," ki
"yiqqarei" hu lashon zachar v'hu mibbinyan hakkaveid.

If I understand correctly, ibn Ezra is saying that the word is masculine
to match the elided word "sh'mah" (shin-mem-mappiq_haih), as "sheim" is
masculine, and the translation would be "her name shall be called

All the best from
Michael Poppers * Elizabeth, NJ, USA


From: Menashe <elyashm@...>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:52:36 +0200
Subject: Hoshanot

I wrote about this
http://www.biu.ac.il/JH/Parasha/eng/sukot/elyash.html in short:

there are 4 minhagim when to say hoshanot

1] Musaf - that is when they probably did it in the Temple
2] After the Haftora - so not to take out the Tora twice
3] Between taking out the Tora and the reading, same reason, and to keep
it near Shaharit
4] after Hallel. 

The difference between Sefard and Sefaradi is that Sefaradi Yerushalmi
take out the Tora right after Hallel, then Berich Shemei etc., hoshanot,
Kaddish, reading.

I asume that in Yerushalyim the old Yishuv took the Sefaradi minhag,
like in other things. Some do say the Shabbat Hoshanot after Mussaf,
because no Tora is taken out, and no need to take the 4 minim. In any
case, the Sefaradi Yerushalmi minhag is not to say Hoshanot on Shabbat


From: Joshua Goldmeier <Josh@...>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:54:51 -0600
Subject: Re: Mashgichot


1) A hava aminah asked, debated, and answered with a halachic decision
rendered is done.  I may have used the wrong word, all I meant was this
hava aminah is reinventing the wheel, or in our case the halacha.

2)  you write:

> I'm sure some mashgichim are kollel guys, but those I know personally
> (there are 3 in my shul), all of whom work or worked for one of the
> major organizations, are middle-aged Orthodox, non-charedi men who
> simply needed a job.  There have to be women in the same boat.  Why
> should kollel guys get preference?  (2) Shaya assumes that all kitchen
> staff in kosher restaurants are male.  I don't think that's true.  (3)
> That "it's not tzanua for a woman to be a boss" is directly
> contradicted by Rav Moshe's tshuva permitting mashgichot
> notwithstanding serrara (the woman boss issue)."

I did not mean ALL mashgichim were kollel guys.  But especially in
larger cities that job is usually done by them.  Yes, even here in
Chicago, some mashgichim are not Kollel guys, but the bulk of the local
work starts out as such.  Kollel guys, or guys in general, always get
preference in our communities.  That's what happens.  Why, for various
reasons, one of which is Tznius.  While ALL the staff is not male, many
are and the tight quarters of many kitchens has lead to many people
requesting male mashgichim.  As to point 3 of yours, your
"notwithstanding" was my point.  Serrara is the other reason some prefer
men over women as a mashgiach.  Whether it actually applies is a
different discussion, as alot of men hide behind that psak, whether it
applies or not.

Look, I'm all for women being mashgichot.  My reply was an answer as to
why more women are not.  I have asked people within the hashgacha
organization, and they responded with these answers.

shaya goldmeier


From: <asapper@...>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:52:09 -0500
Subject: Powerful consolation it may be, but it is not based on the text

> An interesting Diyuk [distinction -- jf("y")s] is that it says
> "Sheyistakach min Haleiv" and it doesn't say Sheyistakach min
>"HaRosh" - forgotten from the heart, but not from the mind. 

Jay Schachter comments:

>>We may indeed find consolation in this thought, but if we do, we must
>>do so without attributing it to the cited passage in Genesis Rabba.
>>The distinction that the mail.jewish contributor wishes to make
>>between "leiv" ("heart" -- i.e., emotion) and "rosh" ("head" -- i.e.,
>>thought)is not a distinction that exists in the language of Genesis
>>Rabba, where "leiv" is used idiomatically to connote the inside of
>>something, or the inferred internal state of something, without
>>distinction between affective and cognitive states.

Many commentators have observed that Biblical and Mishnaic Hebrew did
not draw the distinction between heart and head that we moderns do
today, and for a simple reason: The ancients considered the heart -- not
the brain -- to be the seat of the intellect; the ancients did not know
what the brain did.  There are many, many passages in the Tanach that
show this clearly, such as Tehillim 49, verse 4: "My mouth will speak
wisdom and the thoughts/meditations (ha'gooth) of my heart (leebee) are
insightful."  The probable reason that the ancients assigned the
thinking role to the heart was that it was the only organ that overtly
responded to strong emotion, for example, by beating faster.


From: Shmuel Himelstein <shmuelh@...>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:00:42 +0200
Subject: Rav Ovadya Yosef on mixed seating at weddings

According to the Israeli press, in this week's weekly Shiur Rav Ovadya
Yosef stated that while separate seating is preferable at weddings, if
the decision whether to have mixed seating or not will cause friction
between the sides, one may indeed  have mixed seating.

Shmuel Himelstein


From: <casinger@...> (Carl Singer)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:54:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: SSSJ

> The first protest activity was in 1962, matzot brought to the Soviet
> UN Mission. The first protest open planning assembly November 1963 -
> in a midtown hotel initiated by a Revisionist Zionist businessman
> named Morris Brafman who formed the American League for Russian Jews

For those of us who are unititiated in the tactical art of labeling, what
is a Revisionist Zionist?  

Carl A. Singer


From: B. A. Weil <baweil@...>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 22:06:48 +0200
Subject: Transferring shul's assets

K'hal Adas Yeshurun of Jerusalem, the Ashkenaz minyan in Ir Hakodesh, is
looking for funding to build a permanent home, Beis Ashkenaz.  We
require in the realm of $2 million.  We have been advised to locate a
kehilla somewhere in Israel or chu'l which is closing down and might
possibly be willing to transfer their assets to our kehilla in order to
prolong the legacy of that shul in Eretz Yisrael.  A shul that was
somewhat Yekkish would be the obvious fit, but we are not adverse to
exploring other possibilities.  Please let me know if you have any
suggestions or are interested in receing more information on the shul.
A studio quality audio-cd of the shul's choir should be available
shortly and a professional website is soon to come.

Below you will find a descriptiom of our community.

Who We Are

K'hal Adas Yeshurun of Jerusalem is a dynamic, multigenerational Jewish
community dedicated to the perpetuation of the ancient customs of
Ashkenaz. These traditions center around religious traditions that were
fostered in Germany, and in the communities of France, Switzerland,
Denmark and Holland that were under the influence of the common
tradition developed in Germany during the Middle Ages. Many of these
practices can be traced to the original customs of the Land of Israel,
some dating back to the era of the Jerusalem Talmud.

The Present Situation

For historical reasons, the vast majority of Ashkenazi synagogues in
Israel follow Eastern European rites, while there is hardly any
representation of the authentic Ashkenaz customs which predate the
Eastern European ones by many centuries. In K'hal Adas Yeshurun,
recitation of the various Piyyutim (liturgical poems), singing of the
traditional Ashkenaz melodies accompanied by the choir and special
Ashkenaz customs such as the "wimpel" and the wearing of the tallis by
boys, find their expression.

>From Humble Beginnings

The Kehilla was established seven years ago, initially meeting for
prayers in a cramped storage room and later in a windowless air-raid
shelter.  Today our membership has swelled to upwards of 50 families.
Though the Kehilla is located within the existing Ramot neighborhood in
Jerusalem, a fully-functioning Jewish district boasting mikvas, abundant
adult education opportunities for both men and women, children's
activities and cultural settings, the Kehilla is a warm corner members
can call their own.  The members learn Torah together in pairs or study
groups and attend one another's family events.  One of the signs of
K'hal Adas Yeshurun's vibrancy is that it reaches across boundaries and
attracts Jews of various ancestral backgrounds, who are drawn toward the
dynamic community.

To More Permanent Quarters

As the Kehilla grew, the members felt that it would be appropriate to
erect a large and grand building which would serve as memorial to the
K'hal Adas Yeshurun synagogue in Frankfurt which ascended in flames on
'Kristall Nacht' (9-10 November 1938), together with more than 1400
synagogues throughout Germany and Austria.  Additionally, this building
would serve as a focal point for Ashkenaz in Israel and the Diaspora.

Preliminary Steps

The Jerusalem Municipality has recognized this need and has allocated an
appropriate site for the project. Architect Yair Gutman has incorporated
into his plans both historical styles of pre-war synagogues in Germany
as well as contemporary genres, enabling the building to merge
harmoniously with its environment in modern Jerusalem.

Our Vision for Beis Ashkenaz

Within the building, several elements will integrate awareness of the
past with the functionality of the future.  To this end, the Kehilla has

 * Scholarly Research Library : to house over 10,000 books and documents
    related to the history and customs of German Jewry.  The Library
    will also include computer access terminals to e-texts as well as a
    comprehensive printed text library of Law, Talmud and Responsa.  The
    Library will be integrated into the Beis Midrash, which will host
    Torah classes and community learning.

 * Ashkenaz Museum: showcasing Judaica items unique to Ashkenaz such as
    Memorbuch, hanging Shabbos oil lamp, High Holiday clothing (white
    kittel, robe and skullcap), manuscripts, models of synagogues from
    Western Europe.

 * Choir Chamber : state-of-the-art acoustical sound space for the
     congregational choir.

 * Social Hall :Ashkenaz communities have traditionally avoided eating
    inside shul and therefore a social hall is required to host
    kiddushes, festive meals and the like.

Alexander Weil
Ramot, Jerusalem


From: Yakir <yakirhd@...>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:28:48 +0200
Subject: Yikarei

J. Gelb wrote

> However, the gender of the verb "yikarei" is masculine, while the
> pronoun (zot) and the predicate noun (ishah) are both feminine.

I believe the Ibn Ezra supplies the answer.
"Yikarei" refers to the "shem"  (name) which is a masculine noun.

-- Yakir


End of Volume 52 Issue 98