Volume 53 Number 86
                    Produced: Mon Jan 22  5:52:11 EST 2007

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Atomic Clocks (2)
         [Andy Goldfinger, Carl Singer]
Bigotry and Halacha
         [Shimon Lebowitz]
Both names on Matzeivah
Burning the deceased's clothing
         [Nachman Yaakov Ziskind]
Explaining Catastrophies
         [Carl Singer]
Higher education for women
         [Sarah Beck]
Kavod HaRav (2)
         [Stu Pilichowski, Stephen Phillips]
Rabbis assisting women
         [Lawrence Feldman]
Shabbos Electricity
         [Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz]
Shabbos Electricity -- "Distinctiveness"
         [Carl Singer]
         [Joel Rich]
Speaking in Shul
         [Martin Stern]


From: Andy Goldfinger <Andy.Goldfinger@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:29:15 -0500
Subject: Atomic Clocks

From: <dtnla@...> (Dov Teichman)
> Remember the days when there used to be arguments in Shul about whos
> watch is correct to determine when to start davening? I think those
> Atomic clocks have done alot to increase peace in Shul

Well -- sort of...

The Rav of the shul I where I doven weekday schacharis told me they had
to switch to a digital "atomic" clock from an analog one since there was
debate about whether dovening times went according to the second hand or
the minute hand.

(NOT a joke)

Andrew D. Goldfinger
The Johns Hopkins University
Applied Physics Laboratory

From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 08:05:53 -0500
Subject: Atomic Clocks

> Orthodox Judaism discovers the secret of harnessing peaceful use of
> atomic energy!!

Cute, I like it.  unfortunately, atomic clocks aren't a form of atomic
energy.  The accuracy of the base clock is a function of the vibration
of some atomic element.  In turn a radio signal is sent out and the
clocks are reset according to that signal.



From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:08:47 +0200
Subject: Re: Bigotry and Halacha

Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...> wrote:
> From: Shoshana L. Boublil <toramada@...>
> > I recall that back then, many of my friends used to place their
> > handbag between them and their date on buses, but nobody had a problem
> > with mixed buses.
> Since, as you know, this is not required except of married couples,
> would this be a manifestation of a (DL branch of) the chumra of the week
> club <g>?

While "sitting on one bench" is, as you say, only a problem for a
married couple, I am not so sure that that was the problem meant to be
solved here.

I think it was more likely the problem of "sitting squished together
TOUCHING, on one bench'".  Is that also a chumra of the month (of whose
club I am *not* a member)?

P.S. What does "DL branch" mean?

[My assumption was Daati Leumi. Mod.]


From: SBA <sba@...>
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 00:42:54 +1100
Subject: Both names on Matzeivah

From: Joseph Kaplan
> the names of both of the Rav's parents on his matzeivah, the same is
> true about the matzeivah for R. Yechiel Ya'acov Weinberg, ..

AFAIK the minhag in Hungary was (and followed in many kehilos today -
including ours) to mention the niftar - ben his/her father and on the
last line of the matzevah to have "Shin Alef" (for Shem Imo) and the
mother's name.



From: Nachman Yaakov Ziskind <awacs@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:51:13 -0500
Subject: Burning the deceased's clothing

	Anyone ever heard of burning the deceased slippers? Anyone 
	know of the origin of this?

> from www.shmais.com:
> Was It a Dream?
> When Tomim Sholom Ber Groner of Yeshivas Tomchei Tmimim in Kiryat Gat
> told his friends about a dream he had at the beginning of this week,
> everyone was very excited and rather disturbed. One of the members of
> staff at the yeshiva approached mara d'asra Rabbi Yitzchak Yehudah
> Yuroslavsky about the dream, and he answered, "Since the dream began
> with a point in Halacha, it must be true."
> It all began at the end of last week, when Sholom Ber, grandson of Rabbi
> Yehudah Leib Groner, the Rebbes secretary, entered the room of
> Tmimim Yoni Bitton and Moshe Golan, who were tragically killed in Eilat
> in a road accident during Chanukah. There, he was speaking to some of
> the bochurim who sleep in that room, and they noticed some of Moshe
> Golan's belongings still in the room. We didn't know what we
> should do with them, but we decided to discuss it some other time,
> Sholom Ber Groner later related.
> That same night, Moshe appeared to Sholom Ber in a dream and said,
> It's permissible for you to use all of my belongings apart from
> my slippers. Sholom Ber then asked Moshe what he was doing, and he
> replied, We met with all of the Rebbeim, and we also hear sichos and
> maamarim from the Rebbe.
> At this point, Sholom Ber woke up feeling very disturbed. I told my
> father and the staff at the yeshiva what happened, and they said that
> the slippers should be burned, as stated in Shulchan Aruch, he said.
> As stated above, Rabbi Yuroslavsky commented on this story that the
> dream had to be real because it began with a point in Halacha.

Nachman Yaakov Ziskind, FSPA, LLM       <awacs@...>


From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 08:11:19 -0500
Subject: Explaining Catastrophies

One element to be considered is the relationship of the "explaining Rav"
to his audience (or kehilla.)

It seems that some Rebbeim might be trying to make a strong point (at
great cost) re: talking in shul, or sinus chinum, or mixed dancing, or
 .....  And for certain audiences (or kehillas) such a brutal statement
has impact.



From: Sarah Beck <beckse@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:33:03 -0500
Subject: Higher education for women


I'd be interested in what everyone has to say on the recent ban on
higher degrees for women. (E.R. Sherer brought it up a few digests ago.)

There are scores of arguments for why such a ban is not a good idea. I
would like to hear some considered arguments FOR the ban, or for a
modified version of it.

Of course some may see a chance exposure to apikorsus as a danger. I
understand that some of the professors in certain institutions may come
from non-haredi backgrounds and therefore may (unwittingly?)  impart
some questionable material in their courses. Granting this for the sake
of argument...

What would be the problem, from a pro-ban perspective, with a "kosher"
B.A. (or other degree) taught under a "stricter" hashgacha? By only
suitably vetted professors? Wouldn't such a program itself create
challenging and Torahdik academic jobs for highly educated haredi women?

(And a point of information--are there (many) women in the pro-ban
milieu who do the toenet beit din program and become advocates? If not,
why not?...beyond kol kevudah bas melech, of course.)

Sarah Beck


From: Stu Pilichowski <cshmuel@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:22:55 +0000
Subject: Kavod HaRav

> At the end of Massekhet Berakhot, the Gemara states "Talmidei chachamim
> marbim shalom be'olam - Talmidei chachamim increase peace in the world",
> something we quote every Friday evening after Bameh madlikin and after
> every time we say Ein Keilokeinu.
> In discussion with a prominent rav recently, I suggested that this
> implied that where someone was a cause of discord, it was a proof that
> he was not a Talmid chacham, something with which the rav found it
> impossible to disagree.
> Martin Stern

Sometimes "peace" can only be "increased in the world" after much strife
and pain. Sometimes even wars.

So I see no contradiction when talmidei chachamim "cause" discord.

Stuart Pilichowski
Mevaseret Zion, Israel

From: Stephen Phillips <admin@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:39:40 +0000
Subject: Re: Kavod HaRav

I heard a beautiful p'shat about this saying from Rabbi Moshe Hool at
last year's Kingsbury Chevra Kadisha Seudah.

Apparently, there is a finite amount of machlokes [discord - argument]
in the world. Machlokes causes there to be a lack of peace in the world.

Talmidei chachamim, by virtue of all the machlok'sim between them
(L'Sheim Shomayim, of course), use up a lot of the allotted machlokes in
the world, thus increasing the amount of peace therein.

Stephen Phillips


From: Lawrence Feldman <lpf1836@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:54:46 +0200
Subject: Re: Rabbis assisting women

SBA quotes Chana Luntz:

>> causing embarrassment in public is likened by Chazal to the spilling
>> of blood. And in fact a significant body of rishonim and achronim
>> consider this to fall into the category of yarog v'al ya'avor ... So
>> if somebody is considered a chassid shoteh because he will not save a
>> life, how much more so if because of his actions he is considered by
>> Chazal to have murdered.

and replies:

> I must be missing something here. What does this disprove (or prove) re
> my post?

Ms. Luntz's point, and its relevance to your post, is in fact quite
clear: only a chassid shoteh would embarrass, intimidate, and bully a
woman into sitting in the back seats of a bus, thus committing a grave
sin, in order to indulge himself in the chumrah of not having her in his
line of vision.

Lawrence Feldman
Ramat Modi'in


From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabba.hillel@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 05:28:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Shabbos Electricity

From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
> I saw several other solutions to the "Shabbos electricity" problem in
> Israel besides generators.  I must admit I found them quite charming.
> ...
> One thing about these quaint systems is that it really gave a Shabbos
> atmosphere.  One simply cannot be in a home with "luksim" and forget
> that it's Shabbos.

When my daughter lived in Yerushalayim, they (and many of their
neighbors) had the "luksim" as well.  Apparently they were quite popular
in may appartments.

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore"
<Sabba.Hillel@...> | The fish are the Jews, Torah is our water


From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 07:57:24 -0500
Subject: Shabbos Electricity -- "Distinctiveness"

Just a note -- for better or worse -- Shabbos has lost some of it
"physical distinctiveness" -- today with timers and the like, fewer and
fewer physical reminders that it's Shabbos: In the kitchen, certainly
there is distinction (obviously, re: cooking / heating food) and many
choose to have Shabbos lunch cold but for chulent.  In the rest of the
home, lighting is pretty much adequate when and where needed.  I
remember growing up in a home with a coal furnace -- heat wasn't simply
a matter of setting a (programmable) thermostat -- Shabbos afternoon
might be spent wrapped in a warm blanket (OK -- midheimers, I can't find
my car keys, but I can remember Shabbos of 50 years ago :) ....  No
radio and other outside influences, of course ....

I leave it to conjecture and personal preference as to whether the loss
of "physical distinctiveness" is a plus or a minus re: Shabbos.

On a slight tangent -- I still save my best suits and shirts and fedora
for Shabbos, Yom Tov and Simchas -- There are those who I seem to wear
this same uniform 7 days a week.



From: Joel Rich <JRich@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:13:50 -0500
Subject: RE: Smoking

>  But now that the data is available, R. Tendler had no doubt what R.
> Moshe would have done (presumably because R. Moshe told him what he
> was looking for and what he would do if the data was more complete).
> R. Tendler therefore stated unequivocally that, had the dangers of
> smoking been as clear then (1963) as it is now, he has no doubt that
> R.  Moshe would have issued a virtually absolute ban on smoking.
> Barry S. Bank

I heard the same from Dr. Rosner - but I don't see it in R' Moshe's
Tshuva - what additional data was it?

Joel Rich


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:21:53 +0000
Subject: Speaking in Shul

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:46:19 +0000, Perets Mett <p.mett@...> wrote
> Sadly the majority of German Jews did not escape the Holocaust.

I think Perets is in error. More than 50% of German Jews did manage to
escape before the outbreak of WW2. Perhaps the majority was not very
great but it raised questions when compared to the destruction in
Eastern Europe.

Martin Stern


From: <FriedmanJ@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 07:59:13 EST
Subject: Re: Spitting

      Surely now that we know that disease is easily communicated via
      spittle spitting on someone (unless one is provably in perfect
      health) is more than a question of embarrassment! Since the
      "spitee" has no way of knowing the health status of the
      "assailant" surely they have a right to be seriously concerned (so
      even if one were in perfect health it wouldn't be an appropriate
      thing to do, out of consideration for the state of mind they would

If you are HIV positive and spit on a person, you are, in the US, a
possible candidate for an attempted murder charge.


End of Volume 53 Issue 86