Volume 53 Number 96
                    Produced: Fri Feb  2  5:59:13 EST 2007

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

ATID Fellows -- Apply Now
         [Jeffrey Saks]
Eilat not Halachikly Israel (10)
         [Menashe Elyashiv, Yisrael Medad, Tzvi Stein, Akiva Miller,
David E Cohen, Stu Pilichowski, David E Cohen, Harold
Greenberg, Emmanuel Ifrah, Ariel Ozick]
Learn to Lein
         [Mordechai Horowitz]


From: Jeffrey Saks <atid@...>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:49:41 +0200
Subject: ATID Fellows -- Apply Now

ATID FELLOWS 2007-08 / 5768 

Now accepting applications for our 10th cycle 

Are you the future of Jewish education? ATID has been established in
order to enable talented Orthodox men and women, who have a rich
background in Torah study, to develop the tools to make informed
decisions about the education of the next generation. We have
established ATID to help shape and develop the future of educational
leadership in our community. These future leaders and visionaries will
be the teachers and builders of educational institutions, and the forces
in setting the educational agenda within the Jewish community in Israel
and abroad. In the coming academic year (starting September 2007) the
ATID Fellowship will again be comprised of a select number of people who
have shown early promise of taking roles as leaders for Torah
education. The Jerusalem-based in-service program consists of weekly
seminars, individual and group research projects and field work, and
mentoring by senior educators. Fellows are generally in the first 5-10
years of their professional life, and have at least a BA (or
equivalent).The fellowship is awarded for two consecutive academic
years, and the academic program runs from September-June
(inclusive). Each Fellow will receive a yearly stipend of $3,500 (US).

We ask prospective Fellows to submit a CV (resume) before applying.
Qualified candidates will be invited to complete the application process
(the deadline for which is April 15, 2007). Send your CV by email to
<apply@...> or by fax to 02-567-1723. (Be sure to indicate your
contact details, and date of birth.)

For more details on the ATID Fellows program, click here:
For details in Hebrew, click here:

Rabbi Chaim Brovender, President, ATID 
Rabbi Jeffrey Saks, Director 
Academy for Torah Initiatives and Directions 
9 HaNassi Street, Jerusalem 92188 Israel 
Tel. 02-567-1719 * Fax 02-567-1723 * <atid@...> * www.atid.org 


From: Menashe Elyashiv <elyashm@...>
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 20:14:43 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Eilat not Halachikly Israel

I saw that article about Eilat. First of all, trumot etc, are not
observed in other places in Israel, say - south of about Askelon, north
of Acco.  Because only in places that were counquered in 2nd Temple
times are included. The question of Yom Tov is different. Do we hold,
that only in places that the messageners reached in 10 days of horse
riding, have 1 day. Therefore, unknown places from then should now have
2 days (Rambam).  Or, it is the possibility that they could have known,
therefore all Israel has 1 day (Ritba). This is what has been observed
in Israel all the time.  The question is what about the far south? For
sure, Jews did not live there in the early time. However, towards the
end of the Judah kingship, it was captured and populated. This in short
was the reasoning of R.  Waldenberg in his Sis Eliezer written in the
early 50's. (part 3 #23).  Also R.R Cohen (Djerba, Israel) in his Simhat
Cohen (OH #157 & 46).

From: Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 00:33:26 +0200
Subject: Eilat not Halachikly Israel

Re: Stu Pilichowski <cshmuel@...> asking whether Eilat is not 
Halachikly Israel?

please see Rav Chaim Steiner's article expressing the opinion of Rav 
Shlom Goren on the osuthern border of Eretz-Yisrael:


Yisrael Medad

From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 09:13:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Eilat not Halachikly Israel

I don't get what the chidush would be to say that one must keep 2 days
Yom Tov in Antalya, Turkey!  It is no where near Eretz Yisroel... it is
over a hundred miles to the west of Cyprus and over 200 miles west of

From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:49:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Eilat not Halachikly Israel

Stu Pilichowski brought our attention to a report at
http://www.koshertoday.com/#4 that "Eilat, according to Rabbi Elyashiv,
is not part of ancient Israel and therefore must be treated like it
would be in the Diaspora." Having seen various maps of the borders of
the territory of the Twelve Tribes, I am not particularly surprised by

(For example, see pages 45 and 46 of HaAretz LiGvuloseha by Rav Yechiel
Michel Tukachinsky, available as a PDF file online at

But I am quite surprised by another part of that article: "The rabbi
also ruled that tourists in Antalya, Turkey, also must hold two Seders."
What is the news here? Can someone tell me why anyone would think that
Turkey *is* part of Eretz Yisrael?

Akiva Miller

From: David E Cohen <ddcohen@...>
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 17:28:32 +0200
Subject: Eilat not Halachikly Israel

For those interested in this question, see Tzitz Eliezer 3:23.  He comes
to the conclusion that Eilat should keep just one day of yom tov,
despite the fact that it was not in the area settled by those who
initially returned from Bavel, and thus does not have kedushat Eretz
Yisra'el for the purpose of the agricultural laws.  He writes that this
would be the case according to both the Rambam and the Ritva.

According to the Rambam, one day should be kept even in a place outside
Eretz Yisra'el, if that place may have been reached by the messengers,
and R' Waldenberg felt that this possibility existed in Eilat, since we
know that "Eretz Edom" was under Jewish control during part of the
Second Temple period.

According to the Ritva, any place that was given kedushat Eretz Yisra'el
at any point in history should keep one day, and thus Eilat qualifies
because Shelomoh's kingdom reached there.

If one would hold that the halakhah follows the Rambam, and would think
that messengers having ever reached Eilat within 10 travel days was less
likely than R' Waldenberg thought it was, then I can see how one would
come to the conclusion that Eilat ought to keep two days.

Here is my question, though.  I can understand that one living in Eilat
who wanted to follow the pesak of R' Elyashiv (and others who held that
way, such as R' Shelomoh Zalman Auerbach and R' David Shapiro, the Benei
Tziyon) would keep two days.  But why would this apply to someone who
lives in Eretz Yisra'el proper who is visiting Eilat for yom tov?
Normally, unless one holds like the Chakham Tzevi, the only reason that
someone from Eretz Yisra'el visiting chutz la-aretz would keep certain
aspects of yom tov sheni is so as to conform to the practice of the
local community.  But if the existing practice of the local community in
Eilat (whether one believes that it was established correctly or not) is
to keep one day, then why would this reason apply?


From: Stu Pilichowski <cshmuel@...>
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 16:59:50 +0000
Subject: RE: Eilat not Halachikly Israel

When it comes to whether we will hold one or two days why don't we
simply practice minhag hamokom - when it rome. . . . . as we do with
other areas of halacha, Purim and the megilla for example?

Stuart Pilichowski
Mevaseret Zion, Israel

From: David E Cohen <ddcohen@...>
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 20:54:15 +0200
Subject: RE: Eilat not Halachikly Israel

Stu Pilichowski wrote: 
> When it comes to whether we will hold one or two days why don't we simply
> practice minhag hamokom - when it rome. . . . . as we do with other areas
> of halacha, Purim and the megilla for example?

I'm not sure that I understand what question you're asking.

Are you asking why we don't just always keep one day when we're in
Israel and two days when we're in chutz la-aretz, regardless of where we
live?  That is, in fact, the position of the Chakham Tzevi, based on the
logic that this is what would have been done back when the issue was
actually a "sefika de-yoma," a doubt as to the correct day.  I believe
that Lubavitchers pasken this way, as do a few other rabbanim I know.
The more mainstream position, on the other hand, is based on the general
requirement to keep the chumrot of the place one came from in addition
to those of the place one is visiting.

Or, is your question how someone could issue a pesak now that one should
keep two days of yom tov in Eilat, given that there is already an
established Jewish community in Eilat whose minhag is to keep one day?
I suppose that it's possible because Eilat is still a relatively young
community.  The teshuvah of the Tziz Eliezer is dated Marcheshvan 5710
(1949), just 8 months after the area was captured by the IDF, and 2
years before the town of Eilat was founded.  R' Auerbach and R' Elyashiv
are both listed in Yom Tov Sheini ke-Hilkhato as holding that one should
keep two days in Eilat.  I don't know exactly when that position was
first formulated, but R' Elyashiv definitely held that way long before
his position was reported in the media this year.  Disputing the
accepted minhag in Eilat doesn't carry the stigma of suggesting that our
great-grandparents were acting incorrectly.  Those posekim who disputed
it are of the same generation as those who first established the minhag
in Eilat.

It's interesting that you mentioned Purim, because that's area where the
situation may actually have to be reevaluated from time to time, and one
can't always rely on the old minhag, as the reality of what is "samukh"
(contiguous) to Jerusalem can change.

For example, you live in Mevaseret Zion.  A friend who went to yeshiva
there told me that they were in doubt about the matter, so they read the
Megillah on the 14th and the 15th of Adar, a total of 4 times.  (Is that
the practice in the shuls in town as well?)  However, were the "Safdie
Plan" to be approved, you might end up in a situation where the correct
date would definitely be the 15th.


From: Harold Greenberg <harold7@...>
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 21:52:50 +0200
Subject: Eilat not Halachikly Israel

Dear Stuart, shalom-
You say-
> ..... and Eilat's Chief Rabbi Yosef Hecht vehemently objected to the
> ruling.......

Rabbi Yosef Hecht, chief rabbi of Eilat (Ashkenazi) has been my rav for
the past 26 years, and I doubt that he "vehemently objected".  He is
quoted as saying, "Eilat chief rabbi, Yosef Hecht says that the town^s
residents and hotels hold only one Seder night. Rabbi Elyashiv^s ruling
is therefore obscure."  Published by Globes [online], Israel business
news - www.globes.co.il - on January 25, 2007.

Rav Hecht is a CHaBaDnik, and follows the Lubavitch Rebbe who said, "We
are all in golus".  Please let me know your source for "vehemently
objected".  Otherwise, I ask you in all fairness to withdraw your remark
to mail.Jewish.

Zvi Greenberg

From: Emmanuel Ifrah <emmanuel_ifrah@...>
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 12:30:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Eilat not Halachikly Israel

In Piskei Teshuvot, vol. 5 you will find a number of important poskim
who hold that one should 2 two days of yom tov in Eilat. Along these
poskim are R. Ben-Zion Abba Shaul z"l, if my memory does not fool me.

From: Ariel Ozick <ari@...>
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:55:48 +0200
Subject: RE: Eilat not Halachikly Israel

Stu talks about Rabbi Elyashiv ruling that people in Eilat must keep two
sedarim, which I won't address..

He did however quote this:
> The rabbi also ruled that tourists in Antalya, Turkey, also must hold two
> Seders. The rabbi made the ruling at the initiative of several charedi
> travel agencies that rent hotels in Antalya.

What exactly would be the idea for NOT keeping two days in Antalya, or
anywhere else, in Turkey?



From: Mordechai Horowitz <mordechai@...>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:29:56 -0500
Subject: Learn to Lein

Anyone familiar with this book and CD

Learn to Lein
A Step-by-Step Tutorial Program for Developing Requisite Torah-Reading
By Rabbi Shloime Kohn

I don't know how to lein and am considering getting this book to teach


End of Volume 53 Issue 96