Volume 57 Number 31
Produced: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:48:47 EDT
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Avinu Malkeinu prayer
[Martin Stern]
Benjamin Netanyahu United Nations Speech
[Batya Medad]
Dagesh or no dagesh
[Martin Stern]
Gabbai's Handbook (3)
[Yisrael Medad Mark Goldenberg Shmuel Himelstein]
Hidur Mitzvah - Esrog
[Carl Singer]
Kadsheinu beMitsvoteka
[Aryeh Frimer]
kal nidrei? (3)
[Martin Stern Alex Heppenheimer Orrin Tilevitz]
Peki'in (2)
[Yisrael Medad Alex Heppenheimer]
Redemption from sins?
[Martin Stern]
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Sat, Sep 26,2009 at 06:01 PM
Subject: Avinu Malkeinu prayer
Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...> wrote:
> The instructions preceding the prayer read (in translation): "From
> Rosh Hashanah to Yom Kippur each day after the Shacharit and Minchah
> Shemoneh Esrai, one recites Avinu Malkeinu..."
>
> Now my question: how about the the fast days? Is it not said then?
The custom in Germany was not to say Avinu Malkeinu except during the
Asseret yemai teshuvah and not on other fast days.
> Another interesting point regarding the Rodelheim Siddur - it gives two
> different versions of Avinu Malkeinu - Minhag Ashkenaz and Minhag Polin (the
> latter is the one I am familiar with). The difference is basically one of
> the order of the lines.
There were two customs in Germany, Minhag Ashkenaz, used in the South and
West, and Minhag Polin, used in the North and East, the border being
approximately along the river Elbe. Within each there were small variations
between various towns. Apart from piyutim and selichot, the differences
between the two are very few, this being perhaps the most noticeable. Others
are that MA says Sim shalom at Mincha on Shabbat whereas MP says Shalom rav
and MA omits some paragraphs in Veyitein lekha that MP says. Basically MP is
the version accepted in Eastern Europe which is why Shmuel finds it more
familiar.
Martin Stern
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From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Sun, Sep 27,2009 at 12:01 AM
Subject: Benjamin Netanyahu United Nations Speech
My opinion about it isn't so glowing. Bibi teased us by touching on
some good points. In the end it just fizzled.
http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2009/09/bibis-un-speech-tease-and-fizzle.html
And here's how he should have concluded it :
http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2009/09/how-israels-prime-minister-bibi.html
What a waste of opportunity and potential.
Thanks,
Gmar Chatima Tova,
Batya
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Sat, Sep 26,2009 at 06:01 PM
Subject: Dagesh or no dagesh
When the personal pronouns are the objects of a verb, they can be indicated
by adding a suffix. In the case of the second person singular masculine, in
the pausal form where the sheva is replaced by a segol, there appear to be
two forms: -echa as in yishmerecha, without a dagesh in the kaf, and -eka as
in ya'azreka with a dagesh. I have not been able to determine any rule for
deciding which one should be used in any particular case. Can anyone do so
if one exists?
Martin Stern
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From: Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Sat, Sep 26,2009 at 08:01 PM
Subject: Gabbai's Handbook
Heshy Summer asked:
> I am looking for a gabbai's handbook as a well-deserved gift for an
> extremely dedicated gabbai. Not Artscroll or any of the various luchot,
> but comprehensive book of shul minhagim for a learned person.
>
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
I have mentioned several times on this list the book Ishei Yisrael -
Hilchot Tefillah: Dinei Tefilla L'Khol Yemot Hashana, 1998.
Unfortunately, it is heavy, almost 800 pgs. But this is what I would
give.
Warning: it leans heavily to Litvakasheh paskening.
Yisrael
P.S. Here's the Nehora.com code: HC-MZ1172 : SKU
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From: Mark Goldenberg <GOLDDDS@...>
Date: Fri, Sep 25,2009 at 09:01 PM
Subject: Gabbai's Handbook
Regarding Gabbai's Handbook:
On our shul's website (Young Israel of Century City in Los Angeles)
we have made available a comprehensive book of Shul Minhagim that was
compiled by our Rav, Rabbi Elazar Muskin. It contains the Minhagim particular
to our own shul, but I am certain it is applicable to other shuls as well. We
keep copies in the shul at all the Minyanim as well as on the website, so
that we can refer to the book whenever a question arises. Many of our
Minhagim are based on the customs practiced by Rabbi J.B. Soloveichik. The
book can be accessed through this link:
http://yicc.org/pdf/SeferMinhagim-YICC.pdf
Mark Goldenberg D.D.S.
Beverly Hills, CA
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From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
Date: Sat, Sep 26,2009 at 01:01 PM
Subject: Gabbai's Handbook
Hershy Summer asked about this.
Sefer Hagabbai, by Rav David Avraham Spektor, may be what Heshy is looking
for, although it is mainly addressed to Israel.
This was published in 2005, and the email address is <mahevron@...>
Shmuel Himelstein
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From: Carl Singer <carl.singer@...>
Date: Sat, Sep 26,2009 at 10:01 PM
Subject: Hidur Mitzvah - Esrog
One of my sons related a lecture he heard the other day: Al regel achat
[briefly - MOD]
Since the first day of Succos this year is on Shabbos and we, of course,
don't use our Lulav and Esrog on Shabbos ....
AND since the concept of Hiddur Mitzvah [adornment of the commandment -MOD]
applies only to the first day THEN
it doesn't apply this year.
Any thoughts?
Carl
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From: Aryeh Frimer <frimera@...>
Date: Sat, Sep 26,2009 at 04:01 PM
Subject: Kadsheinu beMitsvoteka
I would like to invite you all to read a new article of mine entitled "Kadsheinu
beMitsvoteka - The Function of the Mitsva," The Seforim Blog (September 23,
2009); available online at:
http://seforim.blogspot.com/2009/09/kadesheinu-bemitsvotekha-function-of.html."
Highly appropriate for the Yamim Noraim and all year round.
Gemar Hatima Tova
Aryeh
Abstract: The mitsva reflects one of the most pivotal concepts of Judaism. It
sanctifies those who answer its calling, and the Jew and Judaism is unique and
"chosen" because of it. In this article we highlight the various ways the
mitsvot and Halakha transform us and mold the Jewish personality: (a) by
converting the "ought" into a "must"; (b) by transforming daily prosaic acts of
man into sacred deeds; (c) by converting simple chronological, linear time into
special moments of kedusha. The mitsva involves the total personality - "head,
heart and hand" and makes the body equally important with the soul in the
service of Hashem. Sanctification is accomplished both through deed and thought.
The Torah wants the Jew to build an environment which strengthens his religious
values and has designated Erets Yisrael as the most fitting place for kedusha.
--------------------------------
Prof. Aryeh A. Frimer
Chemistry Dept., Bar-Ilan University
Ramat Gan 52900, ISRAEL
E-mail: <FrimeA@...>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mail-Jewish" <mj@...>
To: "Esther and Aryeh Frimer" <frimera@...>; "Binyomin Segal"
<bsegal@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 1:09 AM
Subject: Aryeh_Frimer:_Kadsheinu_beMitsvoteka
> Comment from editor:
> Aryeh -
>
> We are asking that any article link submitted for posting on MJ come with a
> summary of the linked article. If you could please resubmit this posting with a
> summary of the referenced article, I would very much appreciate it.
>
> good shabbos and gmar tov
> thanks,
> binyomin
> MJ Moderation Team
>
>
> -----
> I would like to invite you all to read a new article of mine entitled "Kadsheinu
> beMitsvoteka - The Function of the Mitsva," The Seforim Blog (September 23,
> 2009); available online at:
> http://seforim.blogspot.com/2009/09/kadesheinu-bemitsvotekha-function-of.html."
> Highly appropriate for the Yamim Noraim.
> Gemar Hatima Tova
> Aryeh
> --------------------------------
> Prof. Aryeh A. Frimer
> Chemistry Dept., Bar-Ilan University
> Ramat Gan 52900, ISRAEL
> E-mail: <FrimeA@...>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Sat, Sep 26,2009 at 07:01 PM
Subject: kal nidrei?
David Curwin <tobyndave@...> wrote:
> I heard Rabbi Avraham Yosef (the Rabbi of Holon) speak on the radio last
> week, and he said that the correct pronunciation is kal nidrei, not kol
> nidrei. Obviously Ashkenazim who pronounce every kamatz as "o" would still
> say "kol nidrei", but as someone who follows the "Israeli" pronunciation,
> and distinguishes between kamatz katan and gadol, should I say "kal" or
> "kol"? The Rinat Yisrael machzor has "kol" with a kamatz katan. But on the
> radio, he said it had to do with the meaning of the word in Aramaic. I
> didn't catch the details.
Some hold that there is no kamats katan in Aramaic. I find this difficult to
believe. It is nothing to do with the word's meaning which is "all" as in
Hebrew.
Interestingly there is a dispute on one rule for determining whether a
kamats is a kamats katan in Hebrew. Some hold that whenever the kamats has
replaced a cholam it is a kamats katan, others, such as Rinat Yisrael,
disagree. We had some heated correspondence some time ago on mail-jewish as
to the correct pronunciation of the word for "heads of", should it be
"rashei"or "roshei", since the singular is "rosh" with a cholam.
Martin Stern
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From: Alex Heppenheimer <aheppenh@...>
Date: Sat, Sep 26,2009 at 11:01 PM
Subject: kal nidrei?
In MJ 57:30, David Curwin <tobyndave@...> asked:
>I heard Rabbi Avraham Yosef (the Rabbi of Holon) speak on the radio last
>week, and he said that the correct pronunciation is kal nidrei, not kol
>nidrei. Obviously Ashkenazim who pronounce every kamatz as "o" would still
>say "kol nidrei", but as someone who follows the "Israeli" pronunciation,
>and distinguishes between kamatz katan and gadol, should I say "kal" or
>"kol"? The Rinat Yisrael machzor has "kol" with a kamatz katan. But on the
>radio, he said it had to do with the meaning of the word in Aramaic. I
>didn't catch the details.
I found a short answer on this at http://www.yeshiva.org.il/ask/?id=24277. The
author, R' David Chai Kohen, writes that this is correct, and that his tradition
is that there is no kamatz katan in Aramaic. He therefore says that words such
as "kal" or "alma" should indeed be pronounced (in the Sephardic or Israeli
pronunciation) as though they were written with a patach.
There is also a discussion of this issue at
http://www.hagigim.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=164641. The last
poster there cites Minchas Shai to Daniel 6:1, who in turn quotes R' Menachem di
Lonzano's statement that the kamatzim in the words "Daryavesh" (Darius) and
"sarchaya" (officers) are to be pronounced likea patach. This would mean that
they are treated like kamatzim gedolim, even though they are followed by silent
shevas (unlike in Hebrew); by that logic, then, it may well be that the kamatz
in "kal" is also katan in Hebrew but gadol in Aramaic.
Kol tuv and Gemar Chasimah Tovah,
Alex
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Sun, Sep 27,2009 at 10:01 AM
Subject: kal nidrei?
While I'll let the grammarians on the list say something definitive, my
understanding is that Aramaic has no concept of a kamatz kattan, so that if k_l
is an Aramaic word, it ought, in theory, to be pronounced "kal". But just what
makes you think it is an Aramaic word? Kol (or kal) Nidrei is a pastiche of
Hebrew and Aramaic. The entire phrase "miyom kipurim zeh ad yom kipurim haba
aleinu" is in Hebrew. And, even if it is Aramaic, the entire practice of
reciting kol nidrei is only a custom--no issue exists of having to fulfill one's
obligation to recite this prayer, so that if one mispronounces the word perhaps
one has not fulfilled it. Instead, the question is--IMHO--how is this word
customarily pronounced in this prayer among those who pray in sepharadit? (From
a quick Google search, it seems there may be some Moroccan practice to pronounce
the word "kal" here.) And, minhagim (customs) change, so even sefaradim used to
pronounce the word
"kal", unless there's been a recent change, I'm not sure I think much of an
attempt to restore a prior minhag. (What is the statute of limitations on
changes in minhagim?)
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From: Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Sat, Sep 26,2009 at 08:01 PM
Subject: Peki'in
Frank Smiles <fsmiles@...> asked:
> Does anyone have information on the Jewish family in Galil that lived in
> Israel continuously through all the generations.
Hi Feivel (and regards to the Rebbitzen)
I think Margalit may not be there anymore as there was a pogrom there
last year or so (check Arutz 7 news website) when the homes of several
new families who are attempting to reestablish a Jewish presence there
were ransacked and some beaten up by the Druze who have begun
identifying with the Pals. (that's my shorthand for
"Palestinian-Arabs-who-claim-to-have-sovereign-rights-in-Eretz-Yisrael-and-use-terror-to-prevent-Jews-from-returning-to-their-homeland-and-even-claim-to-be-Canaanite-descendents-who-preceded-the-Jews-in-this-land)
Yisrael
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3478336,00.html
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From: Alex Heppenheimer <aheppenh@...>
Date: Sat, Sep 26,2009 at 11:01 PM
Subject: Peki'in
In MJ 57:30, Frank Smiles <fsmiles@...> asked:
>Does anyone have information on the Jewish family in Galil that lived
>in Israel continuously through all the generations.
According to an article at
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/124232, there are actually
three such families (all of Kohanim, and all in the town of Peki'in): Tuma, Ouda
and Zenati. (The last named seems to be the best-known, since a lady from this
family, Margalit Zenati, is the caretaker of the local shul.)
Kol tuv and Gemar Chasimah Tovah,
Alex
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Sat, Sep 26,2009 at 06:01 PM
Subject: Redemption from sins?
It struck me that the verse (Ps. 130,8) "veHu yifdeh et-Yisrael mikol
avonotav - and he will ransom Israel from all their sins" is difficult to
understand. How can someone be 'ransomed' from his sins? Surely a more
appropriate word would be 'vayekaper'[atone - MOD]. Can anyone explain?
Martin Stern
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End of Volume 57 Issue 31