Volume 59 Number 63
Produced: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 02:07:20 EDT
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
A punctuation question (2)
[Sammy Finkelman Orrin Tilevitz]
Avraham and Sara in Egypt and in Grar
[Abe Brot]
Friday night Kiddush: Ashkenaz vs. Sephard
[Ben Katz]
Halacha for special agents
[David Tzohar]
Hechsher on the Label (2)
[Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz Carl Singer]
Polling Places in Religious Buildings (2)
[Sarah Beck]
Ruth as a Hebrew Name (7)
[David Ziants Batya Medad Freda B Birnbaum Judith Weil Stuart Pilichowski Orrin Tilevitz Michael Poppers]
Zemanim?
[Akiva Miller]
Zkainim
[David Ziants]
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From: Sammy Finkelman <sammy.finkelman@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 03:01 PM
Subject: A punctuation question
Jack Gross wrote (MJ 59#61):
> It is obvious (at least to me) that our Birkat Avodah originated during the
> time of the Mikdash (cf. the Berachot that the mishna says were recited by
> Kohen Gadol on Yom Kippur after reading the parasha), and was later refitted
> to the post-churban era.
That has to be the truth, when you reflect that the Shemonah Esrei
goes back to the Anshei Knesses HaGedolah and also that it was not
very long after the Churban that they added a 19th Berechah.
One caveat though, occurs to me: There may not have been an exact text.
At least when the Berachahs in the Shemonah Esrei were first
established, what it was was that the berachah had to end with certain
words (which is how they are named in the Gemorah) and it had to cover
certain items and it had to maybe say this before that and not mention this -
all sorts of conditions applied, but nevertheless there could be many ways of
wording the Berachah. And this was not an omission. It was an early principle,
that a person saying the Shemonah Esrei should vary his text and not say the
exact same words every day. It's right there in Pirkei Avos 2:13:
c'she;atah mitpalel, al ta'as tefilat'cha keva - Rabbi Shimon says,
when you pray, don't make your prayer keva [fixed = exact wording].
But this was a principle impossible for many people to follow,
especially later when Hebrew stopped being a really living language,
and so they settled down to a fixed text.
Rabbi Shimon there was a pupil of Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai so the
saying is approximately from the time of the destruction - maybe he
started saying that later, but it can't be to much later as Rabban
Yochanan ben of Zakkai died about 14 years after the Churban.
This probably proves though there actually was no 100% fixed text.
Neverthelss there might have been something close to it.
1. R'tzei ... b'ammecha Yisrael [u'v'tephillatam],
Probably originally V'Avodosom.
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From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 03:01 PM
Subject: A punctuation question
Sammy Finkelman wrote (MJ 59#61):
> V'Hashaiv Es Ha'Avodah Li'Dvir Baisecha, and V'Ishai Yisroel we don't find any
> more [in their machzorim](i.e., it and what follows is omitted)
> It could be that this was the basis for the Rabbinical Assembly (Conservative
> Judaism) omitting those words in its Siddur. It would be interesting to find out
> if they actually cited this Tosfos.
That might be plausible If this were the only related change in the Conservative
liturgy. But it isn't. My recollection is that the old Silverman siddur -- which
is my point of reference, and what I assume Sammy is referring to--changes
"vesham naase lefanecha et korbenot chovoteinu" ["and there we will perform
before You our obligatory sacrificies"] to "vesham asu lefanecha et korbenot
chovoteinu" [or maybe it's even "korbenot chovoteihem", changing a prayer for
the future to the statement of the past. In short, Conservative doctrine
apparently doesn't admit to restoration of the sacrifices.
The Conservative "Siddur Sim Shalom" presents multiple alternatives for the
Shabbat Musaf, but the Orthodox version that explicitly prays for the
resumption of animal sacrifice in a rebuilt Temple is not one of
them. Instead, Siddur Sim Shalom adopts an innovation from "The
Shabbat and Festival Prayerbook" in the Musaf Amidah; it changes
the phrase na'ase ve'nakriv (we will present and sacrifice) to asu
ve'hikrivu (they presented and sacrificed). The petition to accept
the "fire offerings of Israel" is removed from the Amidah.
There are similar modifications in the Rosh Hodesh Amidah.
"Siddur Sim Shalom for Shabbat and Festivals" does not present multiple
services; it presents one musaf for Shabbat, for festivals, and
for Rosh Hodesh. Within each service, the reader is offered a
traditional text, as well as an alternative text which eliminates
mention of sacrifices.
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/05-Worship/section-20.html
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From: Abe Brot <abe.brot@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 06:01 AM
Subject: Avraham and Sara in Egypt and in Grar
In Parshat Lech-Lecha, we read about the incident where Avram and Sarai are
driven from Cana'an because of a famine and go to live in Egypt. In order to
protect Avram's life, they declare themselves as brother and sister.
Several of the commentators, especially the Ramban, state that Avram erred
in this matter because he left Cana'an without G-d's command, and thereby
risked Sarai's life and honor. (The Ramban also sees the Egyptian exile of
Avraham's descendents as a punishment for this sin.)
But what about the additional sin of putting Sarai (a married women) in a
position where she might have martyred herself and not submit to gilui
arayot (a severe illicit relationship). Here, we can probably say that
before receiving the Torah, the rule that requires martyrdom instead of
gilui arayot does not apply.
Now we move to Parshat Vayera, and this time we read of a more puzzling
incident where Avraham and Sara go to live in Grar, and again adopt the
"brother and sister" story. But this time, there was no famine that drove
them away from Eilonai-Mamrei! (Rashi says that one of the reasons for the
move was to distant themselves from Lot, who became infamous because of his
relationships with his daughters.) Of course, Sara was taken to King
Avimelech's house. Sara was ultimately saved from being violated only
because of G-d's intervention.
Since there was no famine in Cana'an, what was Avraham's justification for
moving to Grar, and then using the "brother and sister" story again? (This
was against Sara's will, according to Rashi.) The dangers were very real and
no justification is stated in the Torah. In fact, during G-d's dealings with
Avimelech, Avimelech is shown to be a tzadik and Avraham is not shown in
that light.
Later, during the confrontation between Avraham and Avimelech, Avraham
excuses his behavior by saying "I thought there was no fear of G-d in this
place, and I expected to be killed because of my wife". So why did he come
to Grar?
So how do we explain Avraham's behavior in this incident?
Best regards,
Avraham Brot
Petah Tikva
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From: Ben Katz <BKatz@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 07:01 PM
Subject: Friday night Kiddush: Ashkenaz vs. Sephard
Perets Mett <p.mett@...> wrote (MJ 59#62):
> Vaychulu has 35 words. The Sfard nusach of kidush has 35 words, to parallel
> the 35 words in Vaychulu. Adding the two introductory words "yom hashishi"
> gives a total of 72 words, corresponding to one the names of HKBH
Also the initial 4 letters of yom hashishi vayechulu hashamayim are YHVH
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Tzohar <davidtzohar@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 05:01 PM
Subject: Halacha for special agents
About thirty years ago I was recruited by the Mossad. Actually it turns out
that it was a branch of the Mossad called LAKAM. These were the people who
ran Jonathan Pollard. After an exhausting psychological evaluation I was
interviewed by another officer who asked me whether my being Dati would
cause any problems. He asked me if I would be willing to shave my beard, eat
non-kosher food and in general play the part of a non-Jew. He also presented
me with some moral dilemmas which had to do with operations which would
endanger (read kill) civilians. To all of these questions I replied that I
would have to consult with my Rav, but it was my understanding that a
milchemet mitzvah, where there is a question of pikuach nefesh of klal
Yisrael takes precedence over all the mitzvot of the Torah. I don't know if
my hesitant answers were the reason, but in the end (thank G-d) I did not
become an agent.
It is interesting to note that the one place where the Torah lets one give
in to his evil inclination is "eshet yifat toar" where the warrior is
allowed to have relations with a captured gentile woman. There are a number
of different interpretations of exactly what the procedure is and in what
circumstances this applies. The Gemarra also specifically allows soldiers to
eat non-kosher food that they find on the battlefield in order to keep their
strength up. I know of soldiers who employed this hetter during the fighting
west of the Suez canal in the Yom Kippur war.
In modern day Israel these questions are no longer theoretical, but
halacha lema'aseh.
--
David Tzohar
http://tzoharlateivahebrew.blogspot.com/
http://tzoharlateiva.blogspot.com/
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From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabbahillel@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 02:01 PM
Subject: Hechsher on the Label
Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...> weote (MJ 59#62):
> I recently tasted a product whose label lists only natural fruit flavors but
> which taste like artificially-flavored cough syrup. According to the label, the
> product has a hechsher from the OU and another organization whose insignia I
> didn't recognize. Let's say that in fact the flavorings are artificial but
> reliably kosher, and the OU found out about this. Would the OU demand that the
> labels be changed on pain of withdrawing their hechsher, or would they say
> "the product is kosher, and our responsibility ends there"?
You state that the ingredients are all "natural" but do not state
whether or not it actually says "all natural ingredients". Also, the
artificial flavors in cough syrup were originally created in order to
mimic certain "natural" ingredients. As a result, consumers have come
to identify those flavors with cough syrup. The government regulations
allow certain ingredients to be left off the label as well as the use
of the term "natural ingredients" under certain circumstances. THe OU
may indeed be required to not be stricter than the government as far
as the label goes. Otherwise, they could be sued for libeling the
manufacturer.
Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Carl Singer <carl.singer@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 02:01 PM
Subject: Hechsher on the Label
Orrin Tilevitz in MJ 59#62 posts:
> I recently tasted a product whose label lists only natural fruit flavors
> but which taste like artificially-flavored cough syrup. According to the
> label, the product has a hechsher from the OU and >another organization
> whose insignia I didn't recognize. Let's say that in fact the flavorings are
> artificial but reliably kosher, and the OU found out about this. Would the
> OU demand that the >labels be changed on pain of withdrawing their hechsher,
> or would they say "the product is kosher, and our responsibility ends there"?
It should be noted that government labeling requirements (in the U.S.) vary
from halachic requirements that the OU and other kashrut organizations may
have. Specifically, government labeling requirements exempt items of a certain
minimal percentage from needing to appear on the label. So, Orrin may have
experienced any of the following:
1) The item may, as the label proclaimed, have contained (only) natural
fruit flavors but nonetheless tasted like artificially-flavored cough syrup.
2) The item may have also contained some other ingredient (leading to the
cough syrup taste) which is not on the label (but in keeping with government
labeling requirements.)
3) The item may have been mislabeled -- that is the label was inaccurate
and/or not in conformance with government labeling requirements.
Kashrut certifying agencies check all ingredients (and their sources) --
whether or not they are on the label.
Carl
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From: Sarah Beck <beckse@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 02:01 PM
Subject: Polling Places in Religious Buildings
Sadly, in my own name-elided district, we once had a lulav and etrog sale
going on in the same room as the polls. Sounds funny -- but what if it were a
Nativity set sale in the gym of a parochial school?! I know many disagree,
but imho there can't be a high enough wall between voting and religious
stuff. It's hard enough to get people to vote without any sort of chilling
effect.
Sarah
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From: Debbie Oney <DebbieOney@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 08:01 PM
Subject: Polling Places in Religious Buildings
Hi,
I live in Chicago and my local polling place is in a shul. Also, in
Illinois, it is my understanding all registered voters can vote during early
voting (no reason needed). The closest place to where I live to do that is at
a city park building.
Debbie
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From: David Ziants <dziants@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 11:01 AM
Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name
I did a search of my neighbourhood telephone directory (a religious
neighbourhood with both ashkenazim and sephardim) of just under 520
significant entries, and can document the following statistics (When
searching, I tried to take into account sometimes use of haser [implicit
vocalisation] and maleh [explicit vocalisation] spellings as well as
diminutives of names):
Rachel - 25 entries
Sarah - 15 entries
Sarit - 4 entries
Rivka - 8 entries
Leah - 4 entries
Miriam - 10 entries
Ruth - 5 entries
Naomi - 3 entries
Esther - 6 entries
Devorah - 7 entries
Yehudit - 4 entries
Shira - 5 entries
Channa - 14 entries
Although this does not cover all the entries, and I did not search
entries that have a non-Hebrew name, I think that this gives an
indication that Ruth gets a reasonable cross-section of usage among the
other common names.
However, this doesn't really answer the point as we have no
indication that the 5 Ruths listed here really have their "shem
b'yisrael" [Official Jewish name] as Ruth, so I will just add my opinion.
I think that in most cases, among Israelis, this anomaly does not occur
with any name. If it does occur, it is usually because a parent needs to
name the new born after a relative who had a name that is not so
popular, or just doesn't like. I know of so many Ruths that are not
gerim [converts], that I doubt that this is a name that is avoided by
most people.
David Ziants
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From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 12:01 PM
Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name
Lisa Liel <lisa@...> wrote (MJ 59#62):
> I just discovered that my late Aunt Ruth's Hebrew name wasn't Ruth -- it was
> Rochel something-or-other. That did not surprise me, I guess, because I was
> under the vague impression that Ruth was primarily a name for converts. I
> checked quickly with my LOR, who performs gittin [Jewish divorces} and he had to
> think hard before coming up with someone whose Hebrew name was Ruth. Any Ruths
> (Hebrew name) who aren't converts and subscribe to MJ? Anybody know any other
> Ruths (English name) with non-matching Hebrew names? And any idea why someone
> born in the U.S. before 1920 would be given a biblical English name that didn't
> match her Hebrew name?
There are plenty of born-Jewish Rut/Ruth's as only name here in Israel.
And among my parents' siblings peers there are all sorts of names
Hebrew/English/Yiddish that "match" or don't. There are neither rules
nor absolutes.
Batya Medad
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From: Freda B Birnbaum <fbb6@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 02:01 PM
Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name
My mother's "English name" was Pauline Ruth, though she was always known
as Ruth (or "Rut", rhyming with "boot", or "Ruti"). Her Hebrew name,
however, was Pia Riva.
No idea why. And no converts involved here.
Freda Birnbaum
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From: Judith Weil <weildj@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 02:01 PM
Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name
Lisa Liel <lisa@...> wrote (MJ 59#62):
> I checked quickly with my LOR, who performs gittin [Jewish divorces} and he
> had to think hard before coming up with someone whose Hebrew name was Ruth.
> Any Ruths (Hebrew name) who aren't converts and subscribe to MJ?
Although Ruth is a popular name with converts I have come across a number of
people whose Hebrew names were Ruth, and who definitely weren't converts.
These include a sister-in-law of mine and a granddaughter.
Judith
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From: Stuart Pilichowski <stupillow@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 03:01 PM
Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name
Lisa Liel <lisa@...> wrote (MJ 59#62):
> I just discovered that my late Aunt Ruth's Hebrew name wasn't Ruth -- it was
> Rochel something-or-other. That did not surprise me, I guess, because I was
> under the vague impression that Ruth was primarily a name for converts. I
> checked quickly with my LOR, who performs gittin [Jewish divorces} and he had to
> think hard before coming up with someone whose Hebrew name was Ruth. Any Ruths
> (Hebrew name) who aren't converts and subscribe to MJ? Anybody know any other
> Ruths (English name) with non-matching Hebrew names? And any idea why someone
> born in the U.S. before 1920 would be given a biblical English name that didn't
> match her Hebrew name?
My wife's English name is Ruth . . . . .Hebrew name: Rachel Miriam . . . .
Why "Ruth"? She was born around Shavuot. . . . . .
I don't know if we'll ever know why she was named Rachel Miriam . . . . .
Stuart Pilichowski
Mevaseret Zion
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From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 04:01 PM
Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name
In MJ 59#62, Lisa Liel wrote:
> And that they didn't want to use Rochel in English for the simple reason that
> it has a chet in it, and sounds less American. My grandmother Rose was Rochel
> Leah; same kind of thing.
Rachel has no chet. And yes, Rose does sound more American. But if you're going
to pick a more American name, why another Biblical name like Ruth? It's a puzzle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Poppers <MPoppers@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 08:01 PM
Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name
In MJ 59#61, Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...> asked:
> Anybody know any other Ruths (English name) with non-matching Hebrew names?
I don't know if this fact can be considered an answer to Orrin's question, as I
knew _ rather than _ know, but my maternal grandmother a'h' was named Racheil
but (as per my mother shetichyeh) changed her legal name (in pre-WWII Germany)
from Rachel to Ruth because as a kid she hated the German diminutive of her name
apparently used derogatively by her peers. My wife Leah shetichyeh and I named
our oldest daughter after Oma but, for a reason some may understand, didn't name
her Rachel :).
All the best from
-- Michael Poppers via BB pager
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From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 08:01 PM
Subject: Zemanim?
Dr. William Gewirtz (MN 59#62) wrote:
> Davening maariv late on motza'ai shabbat is more interesting and as you
> note permissible. ...
> The shul seems to be waiting almost 4 hours, well beyond anything in halakha.
If "davening maariv late on motza'ai shabbat" is permissible, then what's your
problem with waiting 4 hours? It seems to me that no one claims that one *ought*
to wait that long. Rather, the late minyan is there for the convenience of those
who want it.
When I lived in Bayit Vegan, I was only two short blocks from the "minyan
factory" of the Amshinover Chassidim. We never had to rush through Shalosh
Seudos, because there were minyanim for maariv available for quite a few hours
after Shabbos. IIRC, this lasted for 4 hours or so, although they were much less
frequent the later it got.
Akiva Miller
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From: David Ziants <dziants@...>
Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 09:01 AM
Subject: Zkainim
I thank Sammy Finkelman (MJ 59#60) for his positive input and he is
correct that Z'kainim are mentioned in the quoted pasuk Sefer Yehoshua
[Joshua] 24:31. They are also mentioned in Yehoshua 8:32 at the
affirmation of the covenant on Har G'rizim and Har Aival.
The Bartenura on the mishna that we are discussing (Avot 1:1) says that
there were further generations of Z'kainim till the last of the Z'kainim
who was Aili HaCohen. The Torah was passed down all these generations
till it reached the Nevi'im [Prophets] Also the Me'iri mentions this,
see (in manuscript form - great we have modern technology to read this
at home <smile>):
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=19773&st=&pgnum=8
and he says there, that the Zkainim in the mishna includes the Shophtim
[Judges]. (The Me'iri there also quotes an alternate version of the
Mishna in Avot d'Rabbi Natan that inserts shophtim explicitly between
z'kainim and n'vi'im, as a separate entity in the chain.)
See link: http://www.daat.ac.il/encyclopedia/value.asp?id1=1648
and although I do not know how trustworthy the information is here, but
it seems that Aili HaCohen was 58 years old when he started to be a judge.
So Aili HaCohen, being a judge, had title of Zakain at least at the age
of 58. Certainly he was a wise, mature, experienced and righteous person
but is this considered an old person? (Was his mistake with Channa, when
she prayed silently, that caused his sons to lose respect of their
father and go astray? The sons going astray, so they were no longer fit to
serve as Cohanim, was in his old age but did this affect his personal status
as a shophet or as a Cohen in the mishkan?)
Maybe I completely missed something here, so would be happy to receive
more feedback.
David Ziants
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End of Volume 59 Issue 63