Volume 6 Number 1

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Avi Feldblum]
Bitul Beshishim
         [Eli Turkel]
         [Isaac Balbin]
Frozen Meat
         [Eli Turkel]
Jewish and Secular Calendars
         [Eli Turkel]
Kosher Cheese
         [Zvi Basser]
Kosher cheese
         [Hillel Markowitz]
Number of Verses in each Parsha versus Mnemonic
         [Eli Turkel]
         [Eli Turkel]


From: mljewish (Avi Feldblum)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:21:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Administrivia

I still have some kinks in the administration of the list to work out,
sorry about the blank messages, but hopefully we are back on line now.
With this new volume and the new calendar year, I just wanted to remind
people of a few things.

I would greatly prefer that when you are responding to more than one
topic, please send them as seperate messages. It makes my work much
easier, and with the current volume of material, helps those reading
decide what they want to read, if they cannot read everything.

Signatures are limited to 4 lines, this is basically the Usenet
recommendation. If your signature is longer, I will chop it down.

People in general have been good about translating any transliterated
Hebrew that you use, but a reminder never hurts.

Avi Feldblum
mail.jewish Moderator


From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 04:13:56 EST
Subject: Bitul Beshishim

      I have been away for a while on personal business. As such I have
a few comments on recent discussions.

With regard to 'bitul beshishim' (sixty times more kosher than treif)
Rav Feinstein has a responsa on ice cream. without going into details
(davar hamamid and other problems) he allows commercial ice-cream based
on 'bitul beshishim'. Though he doesn't mention it explicitly the
assumption is that this is considered 'bedieved' (last resort) for the


From: <isaac@...> (Isaac Balbin)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 20:34:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Chodosh

It  is pertinent to mention the words of the Bach on the Tur
Yoreh Deah, Reish Tzadi Gimmel, who writes

``No Torah leader  ought to teach that it is forbidden to eat Chodosh
thereby contradicting the customs Jews have adopted according to the
lenient teachings  of Torah Giants. Whoever wishes to be strict upon himself,
that is an attribute of the very pious. He should not teach others
to do this since there is no command. Only those who practice other
deeds of similar piety and who are well known for such deeds should also
practice the prohibition of Chodosh [eg see the Vilna Gaon ad. loc]''


From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 04:13:56 EST
Subject: Frozen Meat

Most achronim feel that once meat is frozen there is no requirement to
wash it every three days as all processes are stopped within the meat.
There is on statement by the pri migadim that does not allow frozen meat
without washing. In a responsa many years ago by the head of the Belz
Bet Din, he claims that this is because the freezing in the days of the
pri magadim was not as good as today. However, with modern freezing
techniques the meat is reallya solid rock while frozen and everyone
would accept that washing is not necessary. In spite of this many
haredim do not eat frozen meat that has not been washed for three days.
My understanding is that all meat brought into israel is currently
kashered before it is frozen and that the various badatz's have
masgichim in Argentina and so the problem is no longer relevant.


From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 04:13:56 EST
Subject: Jewish and Secular Calendars

There is a book "Torah and Science: by Landa that examines many gemaras
and compares them with modern science (mainly physics and astronomy). He
has a lengthy chapter on the gemaras view of the calendar. In general in
arrives at the conclusion that the level of science in the Talmud was
behind that of the greeks and certainly not on par with later eras.

One case I found fascinating was a quote from R. Shimshon Sens (Rash on
mishnayot) one of the tosafists, who claims that in general that the
theorem of pythagoras is false !!!!


From: <fishbane@...> (Zvi Basser)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 00:44:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Kosher Cheese

Concerning Kosher Cheese: Besides the natural concern for kosher
products in the making of the cheese and particularly the gelling or
binding agents, the S.A. tells us that the decree of gevinas akum very
much applies unless one comes from a place which did not accept that
decree. (apparently not too many places ever existed like that).When
Klein in the early 70's wrote the responsum for the Conservative's
Rabbinic Association Law Assembly, while he could find reason to
permit renets (dry like wood, burned and changed chemically, and all
other kinds of heterim that exist in halacha and are mentioned by
commentators and poskim) he had to admit that there was no away around
"gentile cheese" decree if one accepted it. The decree applies only to
hard cheeses but not to cottage or cream cheese, and in these cases
even if non-kosher enzymes are used, Rav Moshe suggested they would be
negligible in halachic effect and batel as whatever they did, would have
happened without them--only slower. still a baal nefesh should not use
them and people in cities where certified products are available
should use only the certified products.

Zvi Basser

From: <hem@...> (Hillel Markowitz)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 11:25:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Kosher cheese

In regard to the cheese question.  I asked my rabbi (Rabbi Kaganoff of
Baltimore) and he said that one of the main problems with cheese is
that a shomer shabbos person must put the rennet or starter into the
milk.  For a large manufacturer of cheese, this means that full time
people must be hired to handle this.  THis is separate from the kashrus
issues that may be involved.  To me, (personally) it sounds similar to
the idea of bishul akim but I didn't have the time to ask more about

He went on that a major cheese maker is currently negotiating with the
OU and that they are hiring people for this.

| Hillel Markowitz    |     Im ain ani li mi li    |
| <H_Markowitz@...> | Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha |


From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 04:13:56 EST
Subject: Number of Verses in each Parsha versus Mnemonic

My understanding is that the number of verses in the entire Torah or the
half way points are not the same as mentioned in the mesorah. I would
appreciate any help in locating such comparisons.



From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 04:13:56 EST
Subject: Yoseph

I heard a story that R. Chaim Brisk asked another gadol about a Gemara
that says that Joseph was punished with two extra years in prison
because he asked twice (zachor) help from his cell mates. The question
was what would have happened had he asked once. The other gadol
answered, obviously he would have had been punished with one extra year.
R. Chaim retorted that it wasnt true.  For one request he wouldnt have
been punished at all, that is hishtadlut (trying) and is permitted. Only
because he asked twice do we see that the first time wasnt proper


End of Volume 6 Issue 1