Volume 6 Number 9

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Avi Feldblum]
Bone China (2)
         [Rolf Salomon, Kibi Hofmann]
Dolphins, Tuna and Babies (2)
         [Warren Burstein, Daniel Faigin]
Hypothetical Situation
Tuna, Dolphins, Babies & Banks
         [Kibi Hofmann]


From: <mljewish@...> (Avi Feldblum)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 09:10:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Administrivia

Hello all,

I think the second part of the move to nysernet appears to be working
all right. [The first part, in 1992 was moving to a listserv based
mailing here at nysernet, but I still did all the work from my work
host, during off hours. I have now moved to doing all the administrative
work on the nysernet host, thus more cleanly seperating "kodesh" from
"khol" :-). ] I apologize for any inconvienience during the transition. I
noticed that I had forgotten to transfer over the trailer portion of the
mailings, I think that should appear on this mailing.

I will be doing the administration of mail-jewish from the mljewish
login at nysernet.org. Thus, I would appreciate all submissions to be
sent to either <mail-jewish@...> or mljewish@nysernet.org. If you
are setting up an alias or some similar thing, set it up for mljewish.
If you use the Reply function, it will probably go to mail-jewish.
Either one is fine.

The way I've found to connect to nysernet is through delphi.com. The
cost, including Internet access, is about $25.00 per month. I also
expect to make an approximately $250.00 payment to Nysernet to help pay
for our usage of the facilities there. I would like to thank all of
those who made contributions in 1992, and would request those who would
be willing to make a 1993 contribution to send it to me. My address is:

Avi Feldblum
55 Cedar Ave
Highland Park, NJ 08904

(Home) 908-247-7525
(Work) 609-639-2474

For those in Israel who would be willing to make a contribution, you can
send it (in local currency) to:

Prof M.S. Feldblum
7 Kelishar
Petach Tikva, Israel 49391

As I have not created any mail-jewish entity (and have no idea what
would be involved in doing so and whether it would be worthwhile, if
anyone thinks it would be and knows what should be done, feel free to
contact me), please make checks out to me (or M.S. Feldblum in Israel).

Avi Feldblum
mail.jewish Moderator


From: <rolfs@...> (Rolf Salomon)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 01:41:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Bone China

Joe Abeles asks:
> Regarding "bone china"  can anyone verify that it actually contains animal
> products?  I mean, china is basically a ceramic, and I think mostly it's
> alumina (Al2O3).  Bones contain calcium but no significant quantities of
> aluminum or silicon. 

Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary (1987):

bone china n (ca.1895): translucent white china made with bone ash or calcium
phosphate and characterized by whiteness

bone ash n (1622): the white porous residue chiefly of tribasic calcium 
phosphate from bones calcined in air used esp. inmmaking pottery and glass
and in cleaning jewelry

[  Rolf Salomon        INTERNET: <rolfs@...>       CMS: BCMS99   ]
[  PHONE: +972 (3) 565-8783                         FAX: +972 (3) 565-8754   ]

From: <hofmanna@...> (Kibi Hofmann)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 12:01:58 GMT
Subject: Bone China

REAL bone china which is rather rare, contains a significant proportion
(I think up to 40%) of animal bone mixed in with the aluminosilicate clay.

The calcium compounds in the bone are degraded by the heat of firing
giving off tiny gas bubbles which increase the thermal shock resistance
of the china, which is why the teacups can be so delicate.. here endeth
the lesson.


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 10:34:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Dolphins, Tuna and Babies

Perhaps similar mechanisms could address the concerns of those who
want to ensure that they give their business to companies that behave
responsibly as well as those who want to make sure that they eat not
only kosher food but in an environment free of other halachic problems.
Let the masgiach certify that the food is kosher.  Let non-rabbinic
organizations rate companies for responsible behavior and restaurants,
hotels, and catering halls for suitability for the observant consumer.

While it might not be a good idea to spend a night at the Hotel Sodom
(my apologies if there really does exist such an establishment, my
favorite road sign in Israel is located near Ein Gedi and it points in
one direction to Jerusalem and in the other to Sodom), if one does
have to be there, it would be good to have a place there where one can
get kosher food.

/|/-\/-\          currently in NY until the Jewish Agency tells me
 |__/__/_/        I can go back to Jerusalem (early Feb, probably)
/ nysernet.org    

From: <faigin@...> (Daniel Faigin)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 10:44:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Dolphins, Tuna and Babies

I don't know whether it is worth pointing out, but for those interested,
an extensive discussion on "Ethical Kashrut" has been held on
mail.liberal-judaism. For those who have access to the archives on
nysernet, the issues of interest are v1n19, v1n20, v1n21, v1n22, and
possibly v1n37-v1n42 (the subject was just Kashrut in those issues).
Issues can be found on nysernet in
~ftp/israel/lists/mail.liberal-judaism/digests, or can be requested
directly from me.

Daniel Faigin
Moderator, Mail.liberal-judaism.


From: <cohen@...>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 11:44:23 +0100
Subject: RE: Hypothetical Situation

This makes me think about a question I had once: imagine you spend
Shabbat in a hotel and say on friday night you go to the toilets. When
you turn the locker you realize you put the light on. What can you do
then?  can you go out knowing you will put the light off or do you have
to spend all shabbat there?

Laurent Cohen


From: <hofmanna@...> (Kibi Hofmann)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 11:56:51 GMT
Subject: Tuna, Dolphins, Babies & Banks

I'm interested to see how far this particular thread can stretch...
Maybe if your food manufacturer banks with a bank who invest in various
'unethical' concerns it should not be given certification.

Following that through, we really ought to check that they don't
purchase *anything* from a non-ethical company...this way lies madness...

In the modern world of multinational companies and complex spiderwebs of
financial dealings, it must be nigh on impossible to run 'ethical kashrus'
checks, and the best you can really expect is 'ingredients kashrus'.

This doesn't mean that you should allow restaurants a certificate if the
owners have another place open on Shabbos - there we have a different
issue of 'bishul akum' [cooking by a gentile] where the non-shabbos-
observing Jew is considered like a non-Jew (for that law).


End of Volume 6 Issue 9