Volume 6 Number 22

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Avi Y. Feldblum]
Chatan/Kriat Shma
         [Anthony Fiorino]
Fingernail Clippings
         [Meylech Viswanath]
Fish and Meat
         [Sara Svetitsky]
International Dateline (2)
         [Yosef Bechhofer, Isaac Balbin]


From: Avi Y. Feldblum <ayf@...>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 23:07:04 EST
Subject: Administrivia

I would like to thank all of you who have sent in contributions for
mail-jewish. There are a couple of administrative items that I would
like to cover in the next few weeks, which will eventually get included
in the welcome message sent out to new mail-jewish members. One topic
will be instructions on using the nysernet listserv facility.  That will
have to wait for a week or two. A second is the mail-jewish ground rules
and I will get to that below. The last is short, and is where to send
submissions to. I would prefer that all submissions be sent to
nysernet.org, at either:

<mljewish@...>       or        mail-jewish@nysernet.org

Messages to me that are not meant as article submission, can
be sent to either the above addresses, or to:


Submissions sent to my att address will suffer delays in being posted,
as I will have to forward the messages to <mljewish@...>

I think that it might be a good idea to remind people of the ground
rules by which this mailing list operates. Of course, to do that one
needs to have them written down somewhere, which is not really the
current situation. They are sort of mentioned in the welcome message
that goes out to new members, but I think that file needs some work as
well, and then I will resend that out to the whole mailing list as well.

So here is a draft of the rules, and I would like your comments on them.
Once I am satisfied with them, they will get included in the welcome
message as well.

Purpose of the mailing list:

This mailing list is for the purpose of discussing Jewish topics in
general within an environment where the validity of Halakha and the
Halakhic process is accepted, as well for the discussion of topics of

Ground Rules:

1) Halakha: [Lets start with the one that is most difficult]

  a)Submissions to the mailing list may not advocate
  actions which are clearly in violation of Halakha.

  b) Discussions about whether it is appropriate in these
  modern times to follow Halakha is not a valid topic for

  c)  It is the responsibility of the moderator to
  determine what the bounds of acceptable discussion are.
  The moderator may discuss borderline issues with some
  selected members of the list to help in making that

2) Flaming

  All members of the mailing list are strongly urged to
  keep the conversation focused on the topic of discussion,
  not on the people saying things. Flaming of any sort will
  result in automatic rejection of your submission.

3) Hebrew

  All transliterations of hebrew words, except those that
  are "common", should also be translated. The members of
  the mailing list span a wide range of knowledge and
  background, and we would like things to be understood by
  all. Words such as Torah, Shabbat, Mitzvah fall in the
  catagory of "common". If you are unsure, it is better to
  error on the side of including the translation. If the
  translations are missing, the moderator will either
  supply the translation, clearly marking that the
  translation was added by the moderator, or will send the
  submission back to the submitter for translation.

4) Halakhic Authority

  The mailing list is not a halakhic authority, and no
  discussions held on the mailing list should be relied
  upon in a situation where a p'sak halakha [specific
  halakhic decision] is called for. In such a situation,
  whether explicitly stated in the submission or not, the
  rule is: CYLCHA - Contact Your Local Compotent Halakhic
  Authority, or more commonly put - CYLOR - Contact Your
  Local Orthodox Rabbi.

I think this covers most of the ground rules I can think of right now.
Please let me know if I have left anything out, as well as if you have
any comments on any of the rules.

Avi Feldblum
mail-jewish Moderator
<ayf@...>   or  avi_feldblum@att.com


From: Anthony Fiorino <fiorino@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 11:11:29 -0500
Subject: Chatan/Kriat Shma

I had earlier posted a possible reason why a chatan on his wedding night
might be patur [not required - Mod.] from kriat shma, based on a gemara
in brachot.  I have looked into this and found that we no longer poskin
this way; the shulchan aruch records the opinion that a chatan is patur
from kriat shma and t'filah until the consummation of the marriage (if
married to a virgin) because his mind will be diverted; however, we no
longer poskin this way because we don't have such kavana today anyway,
so it doesn't matter that his mind will be diverted.

Eitan Fiorino


From: <VISWANATH@...> (Meylech Viswanath)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 10:00:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Fingernail Clippings

Eliyahu Freilich writes:

       But Jews are not the last people on earth that preserve the Zoroastrian
  tradition; frum Parsees, the Zoroastrians of today, also treat clipped
  fingernails with special care.

I don't know where the Talmud got its info re nail clippings, but I
wouldn't be surprised if nail clippings are treated in many other
religions with care.  I know, for example, that Hindus take care to
properly dispose of nail clippings; if somebody else steps on your nail
clippings, that person is supposed to become your enemy.  (So, Parsees
and Jews are not the only two peoples that exhibit this behavior.)  It
might very well be that nail clippings being sharp, could injure people,
and hence the care devoted to them in many cultures.  (This does not
necessarily mean that the kabbalistic reasons are invalid.)



From: Sara Svetitsky <FNBENJ@...>
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 00:59:12 -0500
Subject: Fish and Meat

I have never known, much less understood, the full theory of how far
fish has to be kept from meat and why.  The recent messages about
Worseteshire (or however you spell it) sauce have confused me even more,
because I thought that the small bones of fish were the problem.  Now, I
have found fish bones in "fillets", and I have even found bones in
gefilte fish, but in a bottle of sauce?  What IS going on here? ----sara


From: <YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 23:49:07 -0500
Subject: International Dateline

        I do not have a definitive answer concerning the roll in and out
of the coast, but would like to note that in the Likutei He'aros (and,
for that matter, in that siman itself!) to vol. 6 no. 14 of the Mo'adim
u'Zmanim, similar questions are raised, e.g. what if one steps off the
coast of Australia and goes swimming or boating on their Sunday.
According to the Chazon Ish right off the coast is Shabbos, since the
Dateline skirts the coast. Is one swimming into Shabbos?
        Two other points: when members of the Kollel community in
Australia do kiruv in New Zealand they refrain from melacha on Sunday;
according to Rabbi Tukachinski one must keep Shabbos on Friday when in
        Historically speaking, my great uncle, Rabbi Moshe Yehuda Blau,
told me that as a Mirrer Yeshiva bochur in Japan they followed the psak
of the Chazon Ish.
        In my understanding of the Chazon Ish, the Line is not the
actual coast, but that vicinity, so within reasonable distance (2000
amos?) thereof one would be considered still within that side of the

From: <isaac@...> (Isaac Balbin)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 16:55:39 -0500
Subject: International Dateline

  |         In the Int'l Dateline issue only two Rishonim wrote anything
  | definitive, the Kuzari and the Ba'al HaMao'r in Rosh HaShana.  Both
  | are the source of and quite explicitly rule like the Chazon Ish.  I
  | have extensively researched the writings of Rabbis Tukachinski,
  | Kasher, and others on the topic, and am confounded by their
  | approaches, which are essentially their own inventions.

The approaches of the Rishonim are also their own inventions.  In cases
such as these one must look beyond who is a Rishon and who is an
Acharon. It is immaterial. THE ISSUE DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE GEMORO!  For
this reason, and I have mentioned this before, when the Lakewood Kollel
moved out to Melbourne and asked Reb Moshe Zatsal about when to keep
Shabbos, Reb Moshe REFUSED to *PASKEN*. Reb Moshe did not decide on
issues which did not have a Mekor (source) in Shas.  What Reb Moshe
*did* say, was (and he kept repeating it)

``There are Jews in Melbourne, they have been there before you
  came. They KNOW when Shabbos is. Why do you ask me''


End of Volume 6 Issue 22