Volume 6 Number 56

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Hot Water Heaters
         [Zev Farkas]
Kedusha or Kedosha (2)
         [Alan Irom, Morris Podolak]
Nusach Hatefila
         [Jeremy Schiff]
Saying Gomel for a wife
         [Barry H. Rodin]


From: Zev Farkas <farkas@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 16:34:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Hot Water Heaters

this is in reply to len moskowitz <moskowit@...> regarding hot water

sorry, but i can't answer your specific question about a hot water heater
with a timer, but there is some information that i feel i should make you
aware of.

from what i have heard, (you would do well to verify this with your local
posek) the problem with using hot tap water on shabbat is not so much with
the possibility that you will cause the thermostat to kick in, but that
the cold water comming into the tank will be halachically "cooked" as it
comes into contact with the hot water already in the tank.  this applies
even if the burner or heating element (as the case may be) is off at the time.

since the cold water comming into the tank is what provides the pressure
in the hot water pipe, (which is what makes the water flow out of the
tap,) turning on the hot water valve comes under the category of "psik
reisha deneicha leih" (an inevitable consequence of your act that is
desirable to you), and would be prohibited on shabbat. 

it is possible to have a system that is pressurized by gravity
or compressed air, but you're talking big bucks (not to mention a lot of
funny looks and confused stares from plumbers...) and even then, you might
run into problems using warm (as opposed to hot) water, which we normally
produce by mixing hot and cold water at the tap.

my personal solution to the problem of frigid water for netilat yadayim
(hand washing upon awakening or before meals) is to fill an empty bottle
with water before shabbat.  by the time i need it, it's at room
temperature and fine for washing.

for dish washing friday night (i'm not going to get into the questions
about using dishwashing liquids) you can fill a plastic dishwashing tub
with hot tap water before shabbat, and it should still be sufficiently
warm by the time you do the dishes.

i hope this has been helpful.

Zev Farkas, PE                                :)
<farkas@...>       718 829 5278


From: <irom@...> (Alan Irom)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 08:20:59 IST
Subject: Kedusha or Kedosha

I don't have any access to the source, but I recall that the Birnbaum
Siddur has an introduction where he discusses variations in nusach.  In
there he presents the argument for using Kedosha.

Alan Irom

From: Morris Podolak <morris@...>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 03:44:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Kedusha or Kedosha

I also did a bit of research on the kedusha - kedosha question, though 
I can add only a little to what has already been said.  First, it is  
important to understand that a siddur is only as authoritative as the 
person who put it together.  In the past this has been done by publishers
who had a knowledge of Hebrew, but were not halachic authorities.  More
recently this situation has improved, but as a general rule we do not 
pasken [make halachic decisions] from the siddur.  As for the Art Scroll
Siddur being an authoritative translation, I agree, but it is not the 
only game in town.  Where Art Scroll translates "proclaim His holiness"
(which is what led Elliot Lasson to suggest "kedushato" as the corresponding
Hebrew), Rav Shimshon Raphael Hirsch's siddur has "proclaim holiness" which 
fits much better with the Hebrew.  
My guess is that the problem arose because both "kedusha" and "kedosha"
are spelled the same.  It is the nikkud [dots under the letters] that 
distinguishes them.  If early versions of the siddur lacked nikkud, then
there is no good way to decide which word is meant. From what has been 
said in earlier postings, "kedosha" makes sense as modifying "neima".
This is the argument brought by Rabbi Chanoch Zundel ben Yosef in his 
commentaries "Etz Yosef" and "Anaf Yosef" on the siddur.  Rabbi Aryeh
Leib Gordon, in his commentary "Iyyun Tefilla" cites the Gemara in Megilla
(32a) to the effect that the Torah should always be read with "neima" 
(i.e. a melody).  As a result, he argues that "neima" doesn't need any add-
itional qualification, and the word is "kedusha", referring to the "kadosh
kadosh, kadosh" which follows.
All of the above commentaries are in a siddur called "Otzar Hatefillot" which
also contains the following remarks:  The Machzor Roma has the reading
"besafa berura bneima ubekedusha culam ..." (with clear language, with a
melody and in holiness all ... [my translation]) which makes alot of sense.
This particular text is attributed to Rav Natronai (9th century).  The
Sefaradi siddurim have "kedosha" (which is consistent with Nicholas Rebibo's
posting).  Rabbi David Avudrahm (15th cent.) has "kedosha", and Yemenite
siddurim have "tehorah" (pure) which clearly is meant to modify "neima".
The "Otzar Hatefillot" himself has "kedusha".
A quick run thorugh my library has the following breakdown:
Siddur of Rav Shimshon Raphael Hirsch (Germany 19th cent.)
Siddur of the Vilna Gaon (Lithuania 18th cent.)
Art Scroll
Siddur Tefilla Hashalem (popular Israeli siddur before Rinat Yisrael)
Siddur Minchat Yerushalaim (the big fat one that has everything but 
train schedules)

Siddur Rinat Yisrael (Israel 20th cent. sefardi version)
Birnbaum Siddur (U.S. 20th cent.)
Tehillat Hashem (CHABAD)
Siddur Nusach Achid (Israeli Army Siddur)

Moshe (Morris) Podolak


From: <schiff@...> (Jeremy Schiff)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 12:24:42 -0500
Subject: Nusach Hatefila

In light of the recent "kedusha or kedosha" discussion, which
basically revolved around the position of a comma, there are
three other questions on nusach hatefila I would like to put out.

1. The siddur "Olat Reiyah" of Rav Kook has an interesting comma
   in the first of the bircot kriyat shema of maariv; he has
   "Kel chai vekayam tamid , yimloch alenu leolam vaed"
   ("The living and always present G-d, he will rule over us for ever")
   as opposed to the usual 
   "Kel chai vekayam , tamid yimloch alenu leolam vaed"
   ("The living and present G-d, he will always rule over us for ever")
   The Rav Kook version makes good sense; why should we say that
   Hashem will rule over us both "tamid" and "leolam vaed"?

   (A digression on the word "olam": Rav Yaacovson in "Netiv
   Binah" points out that the phrase "Adon olam" is usually
   translated "Master of the Universe", whereas Birnbaum has
   "Eternal Master".....the difference being that the usual
   translation takes "olam" in a spatial sense, whereas Birnbaum
   takes it in a temporal sense. The latter makes more sense in
   the context of the "Adon olam" prayer. As far as I know the
   phrase "leolam vaed" is always used in a temporal sense, but
   we could answer the question raised above by saying "leolam
   vaed" was meant in a spatial sense.)

2. In Musaf of Shabbat and Chagim in Kedusha most people say
   "erev vavoker bechol yom tamid, pa'amayim beahava shema omrim"
   which if you ask me means "evening and morning of every
   single day, they twice say Shema with love". Now, plenty
   of people do say (at least the first paragraph of) Shema 
   twice each morning and evening, but I think it makes more
   sense to say
   "erev vavoker, bechol yom tamid pa'amayim, beahava shema omrim"
   which means "evening and morning, twice on every single day, 
   they say Shema with love. I have never seen this latter nusach
   in a siddur, but I HAVE heard it.

3. This one's not about a comma.
   The Rinat Yisrael siddur writes that women instead of making
   the brachot "shelo asani goy" and "shelo asani aved"
   should say "shelo asani goyah" and "shelo asani shifcha".
   I do not have Rav Shlomo Tal's book on the siddur so I would
   be grateful if someone who does could tell me his source for
   this (I have not seen it in any other siddur). Presumably
   when either a man makes the bracha "shelo asani goy" he is
   thanking Hashem for not making him a goy, male or 
   female, and Hebrew uses the masculine form of a noun in 
   non-gender specific situations. So a Jewish woman should also
   thank Hashem for not being made a goy, male or female!
   With the "eved" bracha, you might have a case to say that
   a male eved is obligated in all the mitzvot that a woman is,
   plus milah, so it is inappropriate for a woman to thank 
   Hashem for not being an eved......but I think most people
   would rather be a woman than a male eved, so also here it
   would seem to be appropriate that a woman make the bracha
   to thank Hashem for not being an eved, male or female.



From: Barry H. Rodin <brodin@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 19:25:06 -0500
Subject: Saying Gomel for a wife

A couple of years ago, my wife had an automobile accident, I had an
aliya and had been asked by my wife to say Gomel.  However, the text of
this blessing says "sheg'malani kol tov" (Who did all good for *ME*),
which I thought was not appropriate since I was saying it for my wife
and not myself.  In particular, I was concerned that all the congregants
would ask me what happened to me.

I asked one of the rabbis and he said that I could say "shegamal l'ishti
kol tov" (Who did all good for _my wife_).  That is what I did.  The
possible problem with this approach is that the text of the blessing in
the Sidur is not this way.

What do you folks think?


End of Volume 6 Issue 56