Volume 6 Number 76

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Fast of the First-Born
         [Lon Eisenberg]
         [Robert A. Book]
Kolatin; Cat food
         [Roxanne Neal]
Solar Water Heaters (2)
         [Morris Podolak, Joel Goldberg]
Special Solar Water Heater
         [Lon Eisenberg]
Teaching children
         [Benjamin Svetitsky]
Two Questions, seeking sources:
         [Gavriel Newman]
         [Yosef Bechhofer]


From: <eisenbrg@...> (Lon Eisenberg)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 93 03:11:15 -0500
Subject: Fast of the First-Born

Henry Abramson wrote:
>...                                    -- why it is that the minhag is
>to circumvent the fast of the first-born by attending a seudat mitzvah

Let's not forget that there is a prohibition of fasting during Nissan.


From: <rbook@...> (Robert A. Book)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 17:15:17 -0500
Subject: Gelatin

>     "ELYON MARSHMALLOWS, certified O-U pareve, are the first reliably
>     Kosher real marshmallows available in thirty years.
>     "Consumers should be aware that Kolatin is the _only_ gelatin
>     produced from Kosher-slaughtered beef....  This should not be
>     confused with the gelatin used in various yogurts, desserts and
>     marshmallows bearing a K and listed as "Kosher gelatin,"

What about all the certified kosher products (marshmallows, yogurt,
and jello-like products) made from vegetable-based gelatin?

--Robert Book


From: <rln@...> (Roxanne Neal)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 20:42:16 PST
Subject: Kolatin; Cat food

In mail.jewish 6.71, Rick Turkel asks about the basis for declaring
Kolatin kosher and parve.  According to R. Eliezer Eidlitz of the
Kashrus Information Bureau in L.A., gelatin must be from a kosher,
properly shecheted animal in order to be kosher.  He says that according
to Rav Moshe z"l, as long as the sole source of the gelatin is from the
hides of such animals (and not the bones, and other internal sources),
it is considered parve and not fleishig.  Kolatin is produced, I
believe, under the supervision of R. Eider from Lakewood, NJ.

R. Eidlitz also stated that IAMS dried pet food is generally OK for Pesach,
as the company believes that wheat, etc. (i.e. chometz) is not good for
animals, and uses rice, soy, etc. instead.  Read the label to make sure.

R. Eidlitz can be reached at (818) 762-3197 (voice)
                             (818) 980-6908 (fax)
                             70233,2550 (Compuserve)
                             JFWS73A (Prodigy)

=Ruth Neal=

Hag kasher v'sameach!


From: Morris Podolak <morris@...>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 93 03:21:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Solar Water Heaters

There has been a great deal of discussion lately about the halachic
propriety of solar water heaters.  The problems are many, and there is
no universally accepted decision.  I must take issue with B. Lehman's
latest posting, however.  He seems to be saying that there is a clear
prohibition against using them, and that is certainly NOT the case.
There have been a number of responsa on the issue, and there are
certainly those who prohibit it, but there are many who do permit it.
Among them are Rav Tzvi Pesach Frank z"l, who served as the rabbi of
Jerusalem for many years, Rav Yosef Kapach, who is a member of the
Jerusalem beit din, Rav Eliezer Waldenburg, also a member of that beit
din, and the author of the responsa Tzitz Eliezer, and Rav Ovadia Yosef,
formerly chief rabbi of Israel.  It may in fact be that solar water
heaters should be prohibited but it certainly isn't obvious! 

From: <goldberg@...> (Joel Goldberg)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 08:07:54 -0500
Subject:  Solar Water Heaters

> >From: Yisrael Sundick
> >Shmirat Shabbat Kehilchatah says solar water haters are allowed on Shabbat?
> From: DANNY%<ILNCRD@...> (Danny Skaist)
> Yes and No.
> In the first version of the book he says it is allowed, but some people
> don't permit it.
> In the second version (the one with the alef on the back of the binder) he
> says it isn't allowed, but many people permit it.
> My LOR was very upset at this retreat, since it didn't come with any new
> ideas or a retractions, (he used the identical sources) just what appeared
> to be outside "pressure".
  I brought SSK into this discussion, and also related how my wife asked
  an LOR about this and was told that "a well known posek says that it
  is permissible, but won't state this publically." At the same time, the
  LOR also mentioned the retraction in the second version and how there
  did not seem to be any new halachic considerations leading to it.


From: <eisenbrg@...> (Lon Eisenberg)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 93 06:37:44 -0500
Subject: Special Solar Water Heater

Yechiel Wachtel wrote:
>...               The "wall" advertised a solar heater devised in
>accordance with the ssk (Shmiras Shabbos Kihilchaso) and with the
>approval of the Institute of Science and Halocho in Bayit Vegan. ...

If we infer from this that all other solar water heaters may not be used
on Shabbat, then perhaps we must also infer that all refridgerators
other than the special ones manufactured by Tadiran (or is it Amcor),
also with the approval of the Institute of Science and Halocho in Bayit
Vegan (it runs the compressor a certain preset percentage of the time,
rather than being controlled by the thermostat) may not be used on
Shabbat.  I somehow don't believe that.


From: Benjamin Svetitsky <FNBENJ@...>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 93 05:07:54 -0500
Subject: Teaching children

There are many Rabbinic works dealing with educating children, and
unfortunately I haven't read any of them.  I would like to make some
comments based on my own experience.  For one thing, the idea that
children younger than 12 cannot develop a sense of "who God is" is just
wrong.  Anybody who has taught Torah to children -- and I specifically
include parents themselves -- knows that you can have a meaningful
discussion of infinity, omnipotence, benevolence -- and chosenness --
with a five-year-old.  I myself can recall a personal attitude towards
the Almighty from a very early age.  And I once heard the Rav
Soloveitchik say that only a child really knows how to pray.  (I'm not
sure I understand that comment to this day, but there it is.)

Small children also understand death from the time they learn to step on
ants.  Naturally, I don't mean knowledge of one's own mortality, but the
idea of killing something (or someone) else is not alien to a
five-year-old, either.  Of course, mortality may not have much real
meaning until you feel it yourself, and perhaps that is why children
have no natural sense of right and wrong; but we get around this by
teaching morality as both an abstract and a practical matter from an
early age.  God deals out both life and death, and knowing this is
essential in studying His ways.

Finally, I feel very strongly that it is terrible to lie to children,
and I include specifically using "hurt" instead of "kill".  These are
not euphemisms, they are lies.  I sense in Andy Cohen's posting that
trying to blur the facts only got him into hotter water when the child
pressed him with questions.  But that's a practical matter.  On a more
spiritual plane, children are creatures who are all Truth, until they
are corrupted.  The Laws of the Offerings in Leviticus have always been
taught to young children, so that "The pure may come and learn about

I'm not saying it's easy to come out and tell everything.  If you think
the 10th plague is difficult, wait until you have to face Akedat
Yitzchak.  When they do Parashat haShavua in Israeli kindergartens, they
just skip that part of Vayera with the four-year olds, but if I recall
correctly, the five-year-olds were told about it.  I'm glad I didn't
have to deal with it myself.

Ben Svetitsky       <fnbenj@...>


From: <GXNPS@...> (Gavriel Newman)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 17:42:57 -0500
Subject: Two Questions, seeking sources:

Does anyone know the source for a statement that the person who is
fortunate to have seven sons is guaranteed 'Chelek la'olam haba'
(portion in the world to come) ?

Does anyone know a source in the Ramabam bam, or any other Rishon,
railing against obesity ?  

Thanks, Gavriel Newman


From: <YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 09:59:53 -0500
Subject: Yiddn

        Hillel Meyers asks for a Hebrew version of Yiddn, which I am
unable to provide, but i would like to take the opportunity to raise a
pet peeve of mine and see how MJ readers react. Let me begin by stating
that this is not a halachic, but Avodas Hashem concern. When I went to
Israel after High School in 1978, that song was on the radio constantly,
wherever you went, as the winning German entry in that year's Eurovision
Rock song contest. A decade later, lo and behold it surfaces as a MBD
song! Although that in and of itself causes in me a negative reaction,
what really bothers me is the playing and specific form of dancing to
this tune at weddings and other simchas. I believe that simchas are
ultimately to be expressions of Avodas Hashem, simcha in a mitzva, and
spirituality. These criteria seem missing with this (and several other
similar) niggunim, which seem to serve as a stage for people to
demonstrate their prowess at fancy, sometimes even mildly (to be
charitable) un-Jewish like dancing.


End of Volume 6 Issue 76