Volume 6 Number 78

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Dignity and Defiance
         [Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives]
Fast of the First-Born
         [Warren Burstein]
Kitniyot on Pesach
         [Steve Edell]
Kitnyot Addendum
         [Danny Skaist]
Kosher for Passover Pet Food
         [Riva Katz]
un-Jewish like dancing at Weddings (was Yiddn) (2)
         [Yossie Rubin, Isaac Balbin]


From: Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives <simonwie@...>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 15:25:46 -0500
Subject: Dignity and Defiance

GHETTO, edited by Mark Weitzman, Daniel Landes, and Adaire Klein, is
published by the Simon Wiesenthal Center to commemorate the 50th 
anniversary of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.  Documenting the struggle
for human dignity waged on a daily basis by the Jews of the Warsaw
Ghetto, the book includes essays, original documents, photographs, and
educational materials.  Educators, students, librarians, and clergy will
find this volume to be a useful aid in Holocaust programming, as well as
a valuable resource for study of this important topic.

The book will be available for distribution on April 5, 1993.

The cost is $10.00 (U.S. currency), plus $.83 tax for orders delivered
within the state of California only.  All orders must be prepaid.

Please send the order form below to: Simon Wiesenthal Center
                                     Media Department
                                     9760 W. Pico Blvd.
                                     Los Angeles, CA 90035
                                     FAX: (310) 277-5558

Canadians may order from: Simon Wiesenthal Center
                          8 King Street East, #710
                          Toronto, ON  M5C 1B5
                          FAX: (416) 864-1083

Please send _____ copies  of DIGNITY AND DEFIANCE at a cost of $10.00
(U.S. currency) per copy to:

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*Price includes shipping.

TOTAL: $_________________ (California residents add $.83 per copy)
Please make checks payable to the Simon Wiesenthal Center.


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 08:03:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Fast of the First-Born

    Furthermore, I have found that for me personally, the fast has an
    extrememly uplifting side effect.  The fast is not broken until the
    seder, and the first thing one eats at the seder is the matza from the
    brocha "Al Achilat Matza."  One's understanding of the significance
    and meaning of the commandment to eat matza is greatly enhanced if one
    has been fasting all day.

But before eating the matza, one drinks two cups of wine.  Were I to
do that on an empty stomach (using even the smallest allowed amount),
I would entirely miss the significance of the food that follows.

But to each his own.

 |warren@      But the cabbie
/ nysernet.org is not all that paranoid.


From: <edell@...> (Steve Edell)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 16:38:46 IST
Subject: Kitniyot on Pesach

I am an Ashkenazi Orthodox Jew married to a Sapharadiya (from Iran).
The tradition of eating rice on Pesach, for her, goes a long way back.
The tradition of me *NOT* eating rice on Pesach, for me, goes as far
back as I am Orthodox.

I asked several Rabbis, after we got married, what should be done.
Usually, the minhagim (customs) follow the *male*, however, telling an
Iranian not to eat rice is like.....  well, make your own comparision!
In addition, to add to it, we almost always eat Pesach Sedar at my

All the rabbis I asked (I asked one for a Psak - the others I had asked
as conversation, and they agreed with the Psak (decreee)) said that they
should continue to eat rice (etc) as their custom, and that I could eat
anything on their table (ie, any food) except rice.  Sepcifically, that
would include meat made in a pot in which rice was also cooked.  So, I
suppose at least some of the kitniyot guidelines are not as stringent as

One of the reasons I was given for this 'Heter' - allowance - was Shalom
Bayit, for peace in the house.  And believe me, it was a very 'on
target' heter!

Steven Edell, Computer Manager    Internet:  <edell@...>
United Israel Appeal, Inc
(United Israel Office)            Voice:  972-2-255513
Jerusalem, Israel                 Fax  :  972-2-247261


From: DANNY%<ILNCRD@...> (Danny Skaist)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 03:30:31 -0500
Subject: Kitnyot Addendum

Eli Turkel .. kitniyot
A beautiful article. I will keep it and pass it along.  But of course I will
also add my 2 cents.

>                            In Israel R. Eliashiv and R. Weisz said that
>     it is kitniyot based on laws of Kilyaim and nothing else matters.

The connection between "kitniyot" and "Kilyaim" was never explained.
Kilyaim [mixing diverse things] prohibits growing certain different
types of produce together. The laws of kilyaim define which growing
things belong in which catagories.  Hence the "definitive" definition of
what is actually "Kitniyot" is taken from "laws of Kilyaim".

The Rambam, in hilchot kilyaim, defines Kitnyot as growing like grain
and ALSO used as "people food".

>                      However, R. feinstein does seem to indicate that
>  Cottenseed oil and peanut oil are okay since it has two reasons for
>  heter being both a derivative and are of dubious deriviation of being
>  kitniyoy. R. Pris also allows soya oil for that reason. In fact he
>  recommends soya oil as being the cheapest and the Torah is concerned
>  about the money of Jews.

This is the rational behind the "dubious deriviation of being kitniyot".
Peanuts don't grow "like grain" they grow underground.  Cottonseeds are
not "people food". Although with modern processing they are used to
extend flour.  Soya is also used to extend meat etc. (Do they still sell
that stuff in the US ?).  Soya beans are not "people food". (One company
In Israel tried to market the stuff once. Trust me it's inedible.)

>  One can keep kitniyot in the house over Pesach and did not sell them.

Kitniyot may also be used as animal food on pessach.  Usually for birds,
but I have seen on this list other foods certified for Passover that
contain kitniyot.



From: <RKATZ@...> (Riva Katz)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 16:07:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Kosher for Passover Pet Food

Friskies dry cat food has always been kosher for passover. I haven't
checked the ingredients this year, though. In addition, Hill's and Iams
makes allergen- free pet food made of lamb and rice. Contact your
veterinarian or specialized pet store.

Riva Katz      <rkatz@...>


From: <jyr@...> (Yossie Rubin)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 93 10:25:29 -0500
Subject: un-Jewish like dancing at Weddings (was Yiddn)

In m-j 6.76  <YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer) says:
	..."what really bothers me is the playing and specific form of
dancing to this tune [Yiddn] at weddings and other simchas. I believe
that simchas are ultimately to be expressions of Avodas Hashem, simcha
in a mitzva, and spirituality. These criteria seem missing with this
(and several other similar) niggunim, which seem to serve as a stage for
people to demonstrate their prowess at fancy, sometimes even mildly (to
be charitable) un-Jewish like dancing."

	To me, your prime responsibilty in attending a wedding is
Sameach Chatan v'Kallah, not only rejoicing WITH the bride and groom -
but making sure that THEY are happy.  Of course, like any Jewish simcha,
the simcha should be one of mitzvah, i.e. at a wedding, not only are you
sharing the joy that the Bride and Groom feel, you are rejoicing that
two people have made a commitment to each other and to Klal Yisrael to
start a Bayis Ne'eman B'Yisrael [a trustworthy (?) house].  To me the
responsiblity you have to the Chosson and Kallah is like a job and like
most jobs require skills.

	I have been to many weddings where all I did was the shuffle
step, and I was a weddings where every dance seemed to be a page out of
dance class.  [And in fact it is becoming more and more popular in the
New York area for people to attend Wedding dancing classes].  Either way
is fine by me as long as that is what the Chosson and Kallah want.  If I
didnt know the dances, I tried to learn them, if I knew the dances I
tried to teach them.  As long as what you are doing is along the lines
of Das Torah [the knowledge of Torah] (and IMHO dancing to a tune which
has roots in non-jewish sources and is more flashy than standard dances
(at least for the men) is not necesarily against Das Torah) and is along
the wishes of the Chosson and Kallah is fine.  What sets me off is
people who either ignore the Chosson and dance by themselves, or
dominate the dancing to the point where other people are excluded from
the dance floor.  There is no reason why you cant dance Yidn (isnt it
also called the Chofetz Chaim dance? - and the women have a different
version with more petite foot movements, but the name escapes me) for a
while and teach it to whoever wants to learn (including the Chosson) for
a while, then switch to a dance which more people know.  As long as it
adds to the overall simcha and is not for showmanship (which usually
excludes others), I dont think there's anything wrong with it.

	I will agree with you that I also find it bizarre to hear people
screaming at the top of their lungs tunes that they would never be
caught dead listening to in its original source.  Try yelling out "I
come from a land down-under" when everyone else is yelling "Gilah Rinah
Ditzah V'Chedva", and check out the looks you get.  I have.

	Chag kosher V'SAMEACH
	-Yossie Rubin

From: <isaac@...> (Isaac Balbin)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 93 17:22:24 -0500
Subject: un-Jewish like dancing at Weddings (was Yiddn)

  | From: <YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer)
  | I believe that simchas are
  | ultimately to be expressions of Avodas Hashem, simcha in a mitzva, and
  | spirituality. These criteria seem missing with this (and several other
  | similar) niggunim, which seem to serve as a stage for people to
  | demonstrate their prowess at fancy, sometimes even mildly (to be
  | charitable) un-Jewish like dancing.

I believe that Yosef has got it wrong.

The issue of the song making a negative imprint is psychological.
Halachically, there is no basis for the negative imprint unless it is
considered Shirei Agovim (a Love Song). As someone who runs Australia's
leading Simcha band, I initially could not bring myself to sing this
song. It took me a few years. However, and this is the point missing
from Yosef's consideration of Simcha, after seeing Chassanim and Kallos
upset that I wouldn't play it, I decided that I was contributing
negatively to the MITZVAH Lesameach Chosson Vekallo (making bride and
groom happy). The first time I played it, I was tenuous. Then I saw the
so called wild enjoyment of all participants and I called myself
(internally) a fool. Halacha is the guiding light, and we seem to forget
it. There is no Halacha against fancy dancing. There should be a
Mechitza anyway, but only _provocative or sexy_ dancing would be out.  I
see none of that. It is important to recognise that after time, when our
psyche isn't as finely sensitive we have the profound _ability_ to turn
around something as profane as a German song to a _Cheftza Shel Mitzva_
(an item which contributes/is a Mitzvah). I see songs on a Wedding in
this category as well as their accompanying dance.  Perhaps Yosef
doesn't like the _words_ of the song? Does Yosef approve of MBD's
`Moshiach' song? Finally, a sociological reflection.  I play at
Misnagddishe, Chassidishe, Lubavitch, Mizrachi functions etc Songs such
as Yiddn follow the following line.  Lubavitch accept it quickly,
Mizrachi follow suit. Other Chassidim take 2 years of seeing it at other
function, Misnagdim take 3. Eventually all play it and love it. Take it
from me (at least the Australian experience) I have been doing these
gigs for 10 years.


End of Volume 6 Issue 78