Volume 6 Number 81

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Dati in Tallahassee
         [Yaakov Bendavid]
Grand Rapids, MI (2)
         [Pinchas Edelson, ]
Healthfulness of Cottonseed
         [Joe Abeles]
         [Yaakov Bendavid]
Lahma Anya
         [Henry Abramson]
Matzah - Dual role
         [Aaron Israel]
Pesach in the Desert
         [Aaron Israel]
Question from Haggodoh (6:80)
         [Michelle K. Gross]


From: <bendavid@...> (Yaakov Bendavid)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 14:40:34 IST
Subject: Dati in Tallahassee

I will likely be flying to Tallahassee, Fla., just after Pesach, for
work reasons, and would appreciate any information about any Jewish
religious life down there. I know of folks in Jacksonville, about 170
miles away, but I might have to spend a Shabbat there and hope there's
someplace closer. E-mail replies (<bendavid@...>) will be



From: Pinchas Edelson <Edelson@...>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 18:59:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Grand Rapids, MI

The number of Rabbi Yosef Weingarten at the Chabad House of Western
Michigan @ 2615 Michigan St NE 49506 (Grand Rapids) is (616) 949-6788, and I
have been told by someome from there that this is the only Orthodox Shul in

<Joseph_Greenberg@...> (Joseph Greenberg) 
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 10:24:06 -0500 From:
Subject: Grand Rapids, MI

Regarding the post asking for info about orthodox
accomodations in Grand Rapids, I live in Detroit, and a member of one of
the shuls here is originally from GR. I asked about the situation, and
besides the aformentioned Chabad, there is _no_ orthodox minyan (let
alone kosher food stores) within about 2 hours. Frankly, the Detroit
area is only (I think) 2-3 hours away, and it would probably be a little
(??) bit more within the spirit of Oneg Shabbat to spend it in Oak Park
or Southfield.


From: Joe Abeles <joe_abeles@...>
Date: 30 Mar 1993 14:48:51
Subject: Healthfulness of Cottonseed

People may want to be aware that there has been some attention devoted
to the unhealthfulness of cottonseed oil by Bruce Ames in a paper in the
journal Science in an issue appearing (according to my memory) October,
1983.  A natural constituent of cottonseed oil is a substance called
gossypol which is reputedly capable of inducing sterility and has been
used for that purpose in China.

I have been aware of this for years and have witnessed the continuing
marketing of cottonseed oil as a food.  It seems to me that not all oils
are equally good for one's health; certainly nobody would advocate the
use of (petroleum-based) motor oil for frying matzoh bry (or for that
matter Vaseline for shortening in cookies).

 --Joe Abeles


From: <bendavid@...> (Yaakov Bendavid)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 14:40:22 IST
Subject: Kolatin

Regarding the Kolatin that is used in ELYON marshmallows (mj #71):

Does anyone know if Kolatin is available for purchase in raw form
for for people who want to make home-made kosher "jello" instead of 
using the Kosher gelatin mixes (Kojel) which contain food-coloring?



From: Henry Abramson <abramson@...>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 93 09:48:26 -0500
Subject: Lahma Anya

Danny Farkas asks how the Ba'al Hagada can write that matsah is the
bread "akhlu avhatana b'ar'a d'mitsraim" [that our ancestors ate in the
land of Egypt] when the legend holds that the reason we eat matsah is
because we didn't have time to let it rise while leaving Egypt.

The Me'am Lo'ez writes in his Hagada [Hebrew ed., ayin zayin] that the
poor quality of matsah was _specifically_ what the Jews were forced to
eat under conditions of slavery, and argues against the view that matsah
originates from the Exodus.  Elsewhere -- I can't find it right now --
he also emphasizes that this refers to the broken portion of matsah
[this passage occurs immediately after yahats, when the middle matsah is
broken], symbolic of our poverty and suffering.

Henry Abramson               <abramson@...>
University of Toronto


From: <israel@...> (Aaron Israel)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr  12:08:52 1993
Subject: Matzah - Dual role

In #80, Danny Farkas asks why we say ... that our forefathers ate while
in Egypt.  This seems to contradict what we are told about the origin of
Matzah (they had to rush out of Egypt and the dough didn't have time to
rise).  The commentraies on the Hagadah discuss this dual aspect of
matzah at great length.  Matzah is, on the one hand, the symbol of
freedom (remembering the haste of the redemption) while, on the other
hand, it symbolizes the poverty and affliction of our servitude.

The first mention of Matzah in the book of Shmos (Exodus) is before the
B"Y (B'nai Yisrael - Children of Israel) even leave Egypt.  When they
are given the commandment of eating the KP (Korban Pesach - paschal
lamb) they are told to eat it with Matzah & Marror (Ex. 12).  It is only
after they leave that we are told (later in chapter 12) that they baked
the dough they had taken from Egypt into matza.  Thus, from the very
outset, matzah is given a dual significance.  This dual significance is
very appropriate for the matzah.  If we study the preparation of matza,
we know that it must be done hastily before the dough can rise.  This
lack of rising (as well as the prohibition of eating Chametz - that
which has risen) is symbolic of our need to lower ourselves in our
dealings with others.  If we remember to treat all others with the
respect that we expect them to give us, then we will certainly act
towards them very differently than if we feel they are of lower status
than us.  However, our eating of the matza has a very different
symbolism.  We eat the matzah reclining to remind us of our new status
of freedom.  Thus Matza has remained the symbol of both our servitude
and our redemption.  Other commentaries suggest that even before the
command to eat the KP with matza, matza was the bread that the slaves
ate because of their oppression and poverty.

We must recall and internalize both aspects of the matza if we are to
succeed in reliving the redemption at the seder.  Only if we learn to
respect each other as well as realize that Hashem redeemed us to be His
nation and observe His Torah can we truly merit the ultimate redemption,
may it come speedily, in our days, Amen.

Aaron (Alter Shaul) Israel         B'Nisan Ne'g'aloo, B'Nisan Aseedim L'Higael
Highland Park, NJ USA             In Nissan they were redeemed, in Nissan will
<israel@...>            they ultimately be redeemed (Talmud)

P.S.  The first mention of Matza in the Torah is in Beraishis (Genesis), 
Parshas VaYera, where we are told that Lot baked Matza for the Angels when 
they came to visit him in Sodom prior to that city's destruction.  Perhaps 
to teach us what happens when we fail to learn the lessons of matzah.


From: <israel@...> (Aaron Israel)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 93 11:40:00 EST
Subject: Pesach in the Desert

In #79, Michael Allen poses two questions about Pesach in the desert.  I
feel that I must answer them out of order (even though we are advised in
Pirkei Avos to answer questions in the order they are asked) because
answering the second will help arrive at a possible solution to the
first.  I apologize in advance because I am at work and unable to quote
exact sources, but since I will not be in my office again until after
Pesach, I wanted to get this out today and hope it will get to everyone
before the Chag.  The second question asked, "How about the KP (Korban
Pesach) [being offered in the desert]? If they had sheep, why did they
complain about lack of meat and require quail?" The Torah tells us only
once during the 40 years B"Y (B'nai Yisrael) were in the desert of
bringing a KP. This is recorded in Parshas Be'Haalosecha (in Bamidbar
[Numbers]) and is the Torah reading (outside E"Y [Eretz Yisrael]..I'm
not up to date on Torah reading in E"Y on Chol Hamoed) on the fourth day
of Chol Hamoed Pesach. There B"Y are directly commanded by Hashem to
offer the KP & are told to eat it with M&M (Matzah & Marror). Chazal
(the sages) tell us that for the rest of the time B"Y were in the desert
they did not offer the KP. This is based on the pasuk (verse) in Parshas
Bo (in Shmos [Exodus]) which is read on the first day of Pesach
concerning the KP after leaving Egypt. The pasuk commands B"Y to bring
the KP "When you enter into the land that Hashem will give you as He has
spoken then you shall observe this service." Chazal derive from there
that the command to perpetually offer the KP only began after they
entered E"Y and did not apply in the desert. The only reason they
offered the KP the second year was because of Hashem's direct command to
Moshe.  As for the rest of the question... "why did they complain about
meat?"..  Chazal discuss the eating of meat while B"Y were in the
desert. Based on a Pasuk in Parshas Re'ay (in Devarim [Deuteronomy])
Chazal tell us that B"Y were prohibited to eat ordinary (i.e. non
sanctified) meat in the desert. One who wished to eat meat in the desert
had to bring a Korban Shelamim (Peace Offering). B"Y complained about
their inability to eat ordinary meat. (See commentaries on this in
Parshas BeHaalosecha for more info.)  Now, we can perhaps begin to
address the first question. "How did they make Matzah? I don't think the
manna can become Chametz." I tend to agree that manna cannot become
Chametz since Chametz can only be made from something made from one of
the five grains (wheat, barley, oats, rye, spelt) and since it cannot
become Chametz, Halacha tells us that one cannot make Matzah from it.
(Matzah may only be made from something that has the ability to become
Chametz.) However, the question arises, did they need to make Matzah?
While they certainly needed Matzah the second year - they were commanded
to eat the KP with M&M - perhaps they didn't make Matzah the other years
they were in the desert? We know that we are not obligated to eat Matzah
on all seven days of Pesach (except for the first night) - only thay we
may not eat Chametz.  The question we must address is where does that
obligation come from?  Certainly, during the time when the K"P was
brought we know that the K"P must be eaten with M&M. However, at a time
when there is no KP we learn the obligation to eat Matzah on the first
night of Pesach from the verse in parshas Bo (Shmos [Exodus]) chapter 12
(reading from Parshas Hachodesh) which states "ba'erev tochelu matzos"
(at night you should eat Matzah). However, in that same parshah
regarding the eating of Matzah the Torah states "bechol moshevosaichem
tochelu matzos" (in all your inhabitations shall you eat Matzah).
Perhaps, this too only applied after they had reached E"Y and inherited
it.  Which leaves us with only one problem left. How did they make
matzah & the KP the second year they were in the desert?  The KP is no
problem because they certainly had lots of livestock. When they left
Egypt we see from Parshas Bo (Shmos [Exodus]) in the reading for the
first day of Pesach that when they left Egypt "B"Y travelled from
Raamsees to Succos ..... and sheep and cattle....".  They also had
cattle and flour when they dedicated the Mishkan (Tabernacle) during the
first 12 days on Nissan (right before Pesach on the 15th of Nissan) as
we see from the offerings that were brought by the Tribal Heads as
recorded in Parshas Naso (Bamidbar [Numbers]).  We see that each of the
12 brought ".... both were filled with fine flour mixed with oil for a
meal offering.. One bull, one ram, one yearling lamb as an Olah
offering".  etc.  Now to get back to the real question.  How did they
get all this flour in the desert?  Some commentaries suggest that they
were able to buy grain (and other items) from the caravans of traders
that passed through the desert.  However, another possible explanation
might be that they brought flour with them and that it miraculously
didn't spoil while they were in the desert.  (As we see, that there
clothes did not wear out while they were in the desert.)  As for the
counterquestion if they had flour, why did they complain about not
having food so that Hashem had to provide the manna in the first place?
Perhaps they complained because they had flour but no water and hence
could not use the flour.  Late, when Hashem provided water they were
able to bake Matza.


From: <mgross@...> (Michelle K. Gross)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 93 13:23:55 -0500
Subject: Question from Haggodoh (6:80)

Matza is the plainest, unpuffy victual--the humble pie of slavery that
we were forced to eat until we merited redemption.


End of Volume 6 Issue 81