Volume 60 Number 94
Produced: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 13:40:36 EDT
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
A Unique Iranian Custom? (2)
[Menashe Elyashiv Orrin Tilevitz]
Copyright Law & Its Limitations (2)
[Ari Trachtenberg Joel Rich]
Davening in stocking feet
[Carl Singer]
Seating etiquette (3)
[Chaim Casper Menashe Elyashiv David Ziants]
Silent shliach tsibbur (4)
[Chaim Casper Joel Rich Menashe Elyashiv Orrin Tilevitz]
Telling someone the wrong word.
[Immanuel Burton]
Unknowning forbidden relations
[Ari Trachtenberg]
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From: Menashe Elyashiv <Menashe.Elyashiv@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 12,2012 at 01:01 PM
Subject: A Unique Iranian Custom?
In M-J V60#93, Martin Stern asked:
> I have noticed that this custom is not restricted to 'some Sephardim' and it
> is the exception for simchas to start on time. I have, in fact, long stopped
> going at the time of the invitation to avoid being the only person present
> for over an hour. At several weddings we came about an hour and a half late
> and found that waiters were still laying [setting in US English] the tables.
>
> Do any mail-jewish readers have any comments?
Well, some people are always late....and some places always start late.
I once went to a wedding, groom was a yekke, bride was a syrian, it
started on time, and after it finished, the bride's guests arrived.
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From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 12,2012 at 02:01 PM
Subject: A Unique Iranian Custom?
Re Martin Stern's query (MJ 60#93):
A number of years ago I arrived 10 or 15 minutes after the scheduled time to a
friend's very-eastern-European wedding in the basement of some shul in
Flatbush. The only other person in evidence was another friend, non-Jewish, who
obviously didn't know any better. The bride and groom showed up 10 minutes after
we did.
A few years ago, after getting a bit lost on the roads, I arrived at a cousin's
wedding, eastern European [although there was a reform rabbi somehow involved
(don't ask)], 1 hour after the scheduled time. A large wedding. I walked in on
the chupa.
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From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 12,2012 at 12:01 PM
Subject: Copyright Law & Its Limitations
Joshua Schulman wrote (MJ 60#93):
> Rav Nissin Karelitz says in the opening of the sefer that it has been
> "Divinely ordained that Daniel Retter write this work and to infringe upon
> his exclusive right to sell it is improper because he has invested time,
> effort and money into it."
>
> ...
> As far as secular law is concerned, it is legal to take a couple of
> photos of a book for personal use (especially for scholarly purposes) after
> one copy has been purchased, as it falls under the Fair Use Clause.
>
As far as I understand, the secular law is not settled or clear on this matter.
By my understanding, "fair use" is dictated by common societal usage ... so if
it is common for people to copy a chapter of copyrighted texts for their own
uses, then this is ok ... if it is not common to even copy one page, then this
is prohibited.
With regard to halachah, I do not believe that it respects any intellectual
property. The Shuklhan Arukh took opinions wholesale, without direct
attribution, and published it in a compendium, and this is one of the core bases
for our laws (although there is clearly merit in citing sources). Ultimately,
it is our Divine mission to spread Torah throughout the world, using bodies and
minds that are borrowed from G-d for this use.
In my view, those who try to make money from Torah ... will have neither.
I would avoid learning from a book with such a preamble.
Best,
Ari
---
Ari Trachtenberg
<trachten@...>
http://people.bu.edu/trachten
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From: Joel Rich <JRich@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 12,2012 at 12:01 PM
Subject: Copyright Law & Its Limitations
Joshua Schulman wrote (MJ 60#93):
> I recently purchased the excellent Sefer HaMafteach, which is an index to
> Talmud Bavli, and it was written on the first page that "any means of
> reproducing the information in this sefer is assur [forbidden - MOD] and
> illegal." Further, "this prohibition will be strictly enforced by a Beis Din
> and Secular Court." Rav Nissin Karelitz says in the opening of the sefer that
> it has been "Divinely ordained that Daniel Retter write this work and to
> infringe upon his exclusive right to sell it is improper because he has
> invested time, effort and money into it."
Intellectual Property rights in halacha is an interesting issue (and one that's
not so clear).
KT
Joel Rich
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From: Carl Singer <carl.singer@...>
Date: Fri, Jul 13,2012 at 10:01 AM
Subject: Davening in stocking feet
This may deal more with social than halachic issues, but since davening is
an important part of one's day ....
We have a congregant who for whatever reasons (I presume foot pain) takes
off his shoes and davens in his stocking feet. No -- not on Tisha B'av, on
"ordinary" days. Is this permitted?
On the one hand it's none of my business, on the other hand it's
distracting.
While on the subject of distractions, what of a congregant who does not
daven with the Tzibbur -- he's frequently several pages ahead (if he comes
early he just starts)? Or he's laying his head down for Tachnun as we're
beginning the Amidah.... And, yes, he is audible.
Carl Singer
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From: Chaim Casper <surfflorist@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 12,2012 at 12:01 PM
Subject: Seating etiquette
Martin Stern (MJ 60#93) notes
> ...[t]here seem to be two traditions regarding shul seating:
> 1. Members are allocated specific seats, and visitors are expected to ask
> where there is a free place (makom kavua); As gabbai of my shul, I can offer
> the personal perspective that men come up to me and ask where is there a
> free, unreserved place.
>
> 2. Anyone can take any seat, and it is impolite to ask someone to move (kol
> hakodem zacha).
Rabbi Ephraim Buchwald, founder of the National Jewish Outreach Center and
founder of the Lincoln Square Beginners' Minyan, has often quipped that the
first five words non-Orthodox people hear when they walk into an Orthodox shul
are "You're sitting in my seat."
> Unfortunately, a lack of appreciation of these divergent practices leads to
> discord when those from one type of shul attend one of the other. How can
> such problems be minimised?
When my current synagogue installed new seats about two years ago, we educated
the membership to take the attitude that if they come late to shul and there is
someone already there, just move to the next seat. Most people accepted this
advice. We then went to step B and announced that men's seats would be reserved
until 10am (at Lincoln Square in New York, NY, they used to hold mens' seats
until 9:30am) while women's seats would be held until 10:30am (or 10am at
Lincoln Square).
Even so, there were still some who felt they could come anytime and expect the
person sitting in their seat to move. People who have derekh erez (manners) and
kavod habri'ut (respect for the next person) will move to the next seat while
those that don't will insist the guest move to the next seat.
Chaim Casper
North Miami Beach, FL
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From: Menashe Elyashiv <Menashe.Elyashiv@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 12,2012 at 01:01 PM
Subject: Seating etiquette
RE Martin Stern's query (MJ 60#93):
The best solution is to have a gabbai that will take a visitor to an empty
chair.
As a gabbai myself, I realise that it is not easy to watch out for
outsiders, but it seems that a helpful gabbai is better than having to
find someone in your seat.
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From: David Ziants <dziants@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 12,2012 at 04:01 PM
Subject: Seating etiquette
RE Martin Stern's query (MJ 60#93):
The easiest way to minimise problems due to divergent practices is to
put notices up in a clear way so that visitors see. This could also
relate to other issues, such as the nusach (or allowed nusachim) of
shatz, protocols for kaddish sayer(s) - do they stand in their place,
next to the bima or at the front. In the shuls where I am, the kaddish
sayers tend to be well self-trained to wait for the others when some have
words that others don't say. Visitors, though, need to be informed of the
accepted practice.
With respect to seating, here are a couple of possibilities that I have
seen in different shuls, both locally and in other places:-
a) In a shul with named seats, the by-laws of the shul state that the
fixed seats are for Friday night and Shabbat morning only. A person with
such a seat is entitled to it, provided he arrives before Mizmor Shir on
Friday night and Shochen Ad on Shabbat morning (or maybe at other
similar points). Before then, there is an usher that seats visitors, or
members whose level of membership does not give entitlement to a named
seat and you are expected to wait for the usher. If someone is sitting
in your seat, and you arrive on time, then you should not sit on the
person's lap, but you may tactfully suggest another seat, for that
person, that you know will not be occupied.
b) In a shul without fixed seating, many members still like to sit in
the same seat (and that is what the halacha dictates). The by-laws state
that there are no fixed seats but the norm is that if you are a regular
then you begin to know what seats are not usually taken by others and
you start to try and make that your "fixed" seat. Some men have their
own stenders [book stands] from home, but it is expected that you make
it available for others' occasional use, if you are not there. In any
case, if a visitor is sitting where you normally sit, it is expected
that you just sit in another seat without making the visitor feel bad or
aware. (I find sitting in the row behind is a good option, if this is
available.)
The moral of this - come to shul early....
David Ziants
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From: Chaim Casper <surfflorist@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 12,2012 at 12:01 PM
Subject: Silent shliach tsibbur
Martin Stern (MJ 60#93) told of
> ... an elderly member had yahrzeit and acted as shliach tsibbur. Unfortunately
> he was so quiet that he was almost totally inaudible and it was only with
> difficulty that I managed to hear him at least during chazarat hashats when
> everyone else was silent.
The RaM"A in O.H. 581:1 gives the optimal traits one needs in a shaliah zibbur
(prayer leader). He concludes that every [male] Jew is acceptable so long as
he is "meruzah lakahal" (approved by the congregation).
I have had to enforce this ruling many times, usually on Shabbat and Yom Tov,
when I have to refuse the amud (the leadership role) to someone who has a
terrible voice or doesn't know the nusah (liturgical tune).
I also had a member who observed a yahrzeit the day after Yom Kippur. He, too,
was so quiet that no one in the sanctuary (even those sitting nearby) could hear
him. So I had to tell him that he could no longer serve as shaliah zibbur as no
one was happy with his davening. He was unhappy with me but since he was not
meruzah lakahal, he could not lead the t'fillot.
B'virkat Torah
Chaim Casper
North Miami Beach, FL
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From: Joel Rich <JRich@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 12,2012 at 12:01 PM
Subject: Silent shliach tsibbur
RE Martin Stern's query (MJ 60#93):
Theoretically the individual should be coached to see if he can meet minimum
standards though, practically, often no one wants to do it, especially if the
member provides significant financial support.
KT
Joel Rich
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From: Menashe Elyashiv <Menashe.Elyashiv@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 12,2012 at 02:01 PM
Subject: Silent shliach tsibbur
RE Martin Stern's query (MJ 60#93):
The question is must one be a shliach sibbur in any case? If he cannot be
heard, or does not know how to be a proper shliach sibbur, it seems that
one should not.
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From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 12,2012 at 06:01 PM
Subject: Silent shliach tsibbur
Martin Stern asks (MJ 60#93) about an inaudible shliach tzibur who is at the
amud only because he has yahrzeit.
We have discussed this issue many times on this forum, once in response to my
stated nightmare of the guy who walks in to Kol Nidre and demands to daven
because he has yahrzeit. The consensus then was that nobody, yahrzeit or not,
gets to daven unless he is acceptable to the congregation, which defaults to the
gabbai. Does anyone else in the shul object? (They ought to, because if he is
inaudible he cannot cause anyone else to fulfill their prayer obligations
vicariously.)
BTW, I grew up in a shul where one complete am haaretz had yahrzeit on Tisha
B'Av. And he had money - I think he was a board member. In addition to reciting
the haftarah -- and he could barely read Hebrew -- he persisted, every year, in
saying "retze . . . be-amcho yisroel uvisiflusom." Money talks.
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From: Immanuel Burton <iburton@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 12,2012 at 12:01 PM
Subject: Telling someone the wrong word.
I recently had a discussion with a colleague about whether it's wrong to
tell someone who's learning English the wrong word for something, such
that they'll use that wrong word elsewhere and possibly get laughed at.
I have a vague recollection of having learned that this is prohibited
under the precept of "Lifnei ivver lo tittain michshol" - do not put a
stumbling block before the blind - but I can't find mention of it in the
book that I thought I'd seen it in. I believe that it is wrong to
mislead someone in this way, but what is the actual prohibition?
Immanuel Burton.
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From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 12,2012 at 12:01 PM
Subject: Unknowning forbidden relations
When Avraham tells Avimelech that Sarah is his sister, allowing Avimelech to take
Sarah, who would be to blame for any resulting adultery: Avraham or Avimelech?
Put another way, if a man has relations with a woman who proclaims herself to be
unmarried (but actually is married, or is a niddah, or the like), is he still open
to capital punishment? Obviously, there is no way for a man in such a position to
check the woman's status ... so it would seem to be unjust to punish him.
Thoughts?
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End of Volume 60 Issue 94