Volume 62 Number 95 
      Produced: Tue, 02 Aug 16 09:03:58 -0400

Subjects Discussed In This Issue:

Brisker Methodology 
    [Yisrael Medad]
    [Joel Rich]
Salad certification 
    [Joel Rich]
Shabbos in Barcelona 
    [Avi Frydman]
Some thoughts on An'im Zemirot 
    [Martin Stern]
Tachanun after Shavuot (2)
    [Martin Stern  Martin Stern]


From: Yisrael Medad  <yisrael.medad@...>
Date: Fri, Jul 8,2016 at 06:01 AM
Subject: Brisker Methodology

Joel Rich (MJ 62#94) asks:

> Is the Brisker approach the final word? 

I found this:

Rabbi Shimon Shkop (1860-1939), a close colleague of Rabbi Israel Meir Kagan
(the Chofetz Chaim) and Rabbi Chaim Ozer Grodzinski, the two preeminent
authorities of pre-war Europe, is oft-mentioned in the circles of Talmudic
analytics. His position as the head of the Telze Yeshiva allowed him to craft a
curriculum that combined the complex Talmudic approach of Brisk and the simple
approach of Rabbi Naftali Tzvi Yehuda Berlin at Volozhin, to create the Telze

Yisrael Medad



From: Joel Rich <JRich@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 21,2016 at 04:01 PM
Subject: Engagement?

R" Y Katz recently wrote the following:

"These are trying times for Modern Orthodoxy. Our safety net is porous; many are
falling through the cracks. The under-40 crowd rarely participates in our
communal shiurim, few of them attend daily minyan. When they do show up to shul
they are not interested in debating the intricacies of philosophy and Jewish


I'm curious if this is consistent with what folks are seeing in their local


Joel Rich


From: Joel Rich <JRich@...>
Date: Thu, Jul 28,2016 at 03:01 PM
Subject: Salad certification

We recently purchased some prewashed salad which had both the "usual" star-k
certification plus a local certification sticker as well. Does anyone know if
this means two sets of mashigichim at the plant or does one organization rely on
the other's mashigichim and do the organizations' standards differ on the actual
salad inspection process?

Joel Rich


From: Avi Frydman <frydman@...>
Date: Fri, Jul 29,2016 at 04:01 PM
Subject: Shabbos in Barcelona

My wife and I will be in Barcelona over Shabbos.  Any experience with food,
hotels, shuls? Any help would be appreciated. 

Avi Frydman


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Fri, Jul 8,2016 at 04:01 AM
Subject: Some thoughts on An'im Zemirot

Chaim Casper  wrote (MJ 62#94):

> There has been a lot of discussion regarding anim z'mirot over the last few
> issues.
> Here is a different question:  Is anim z'mirot a d'var shebikdushah (something
> which requires a minyan of ten adult men to recite)?

I fear Chaim has got things back to front. Just because something requires a
minyan of ten adult men to be recited does not make it a d'var shebikdushah.
Rather, a d'var shebikdushah is defined by other criteria and the can only
be recited when a minyan of ten adult men is present.

> On one hand, it fits the definition of a d'var shebikdushah as it is recited
> responsively (e.g. the shaliah zibbur [the leader recites a line and the
> community says the next line], the same as borkhu or k'dushah.

Responsive recitation is not the crucial criterion, but merely an incidental
factor, else, for example, Yigdal would also qualify and this is definitely
not the case - it certainly can be sung by smaller groups.

Martin Stern


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Fri, Jul 8,2016 at 04:01 AM
Subject: Tachanun after Shavuot

Chaim Casper  wrote (MJ 62#94):

> Martin Stern (MJ 62#93) asked if zidkatekha should have been said this year
> (2016/5776) at Shabbat minhah because the olat re'iyah (a private sacrifice)
> would not have been offered on Shabbat, the 7th day after the first day of
> Shavuot.
> Allow me to offer two reasons why and how one could have skipped zidkatekha
> this year.  
> 1) Lo palug (no differentiation).
> In a regular year, the sheva y'mei tashlumin (the seven days starting with
> Shavuot when the Shavuot sacrifices could be offered if the Beit Hamikdash /
> Temple were in existence) would always start with the first day of Shavuot
> (the 6th of Sivan) and end on the seventh day after (or the 12th of Sivan).
> It makes no difference how these seven days fall out; starting with the first
> day of Shavuot, no tahanun or zidkatekha would recited.
> Thus, in 2017, the first day of Shavuot is Wednesday, May 31 which means the
> last day for skipping tahanun is Tuesday, June 06.   Now, should we say
> zidkatekha on that Shabbat, June 03 because you don't bring an olat re'iyah
> that Shabbat?   That I have never heard of.  So if one would skip zidkatekha
> on the 4th day of the sheva y'mei tashlumin (as per next year, 2017), one
> would skip zidkatekha on the 7th day of the sheva y'mei tashlumin (as per this
> year, 2016); lo palug, no difference as both days are Shabbat.

I would not dispute that in a year where the seventh day does not fall on
Shabbat, and so there will be further y'mei tashlumin after it, those with
this custom would not omit zidkatekha, and then go back to omitting tachanun
on the following days, since it would be 'absorbed' into their tachanun-free
period. I was only querying the case where the seventh day fell on Shabbat
so that it would have terminated a day earlier than in other years.

> 2) According to those who hold Matan Torah was on Sivan 07
> To some, the sheva y'mei tashlumin start with the first day of Shavuot / Sivan
> 06.   But there are those who hold that the Torah was given on Sivan 07 (cf R
> Yosi in Shabbat 87).

This is not necessarily the case. We have a tradition that Yetsiat Mitsrayim
[The Exodus] took place on a Thursday and Matan Torah was on a Shabbat (loc.
cit.). On our fixed calendar this would mean that the latter must have been
7 Sivan but this is an anachronism since Rosh Chodesh was fixed by actual
observation of the crescent of the new moon.

On the other hand, there is another tradition that Matan Torah was on 6
Sivan (see Rashi to Ber.1:31 on Hashishi).

There are two ways to resolve this apparent contradiction:

1. Possibly that year both Nisan and Iyar were malei (30 days i.e. Rosh
Chodesh Iyar and Sivan were both two days)

2. Before Matan Torah (after the Flood), the night was considered as being
part of the previous day (yomam velaila lo yishbotu - Ber. 8:22) and this
was only changed to our current practice thereafter (reverting to the
pre-Flood system).

> Thus, this year, there are those who would have skipped tahanun until Sunday,
> June 19 / Sivan 13 (Sivan 13 is the 7th day after Sivan 7).   Thus, these
> people, even according to Martin, would have skipped zidkatekha on the Shabbat
> of June 18 as that would have been only the sixth day of the sheva y'mei
> tashlumin.

If my suggestions above are correct Shabbat of June 18 would still have been
the seventh day the sheva y'mei tashlumin - vetsarikh iyun [But further
study is required]

Martin Stern

From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Fri, Jul 8,2016 at 04:01 AM
Subject: Tachanun after Shavuot

Saul Mashbaum wrote (MJ 62#94):

> The custom in Israel is not to say tachanun *six* days after Shavuot,
> since one has *six* additional days to bring the olat re'iyah
> [festival offering] after Shavuot. The law is "Shavuot yesh lo
> tashlumim kol shiva" which means that all seven days are appropriate
> for the olat re'iyah *including Shavuot itself*.

I agree entirely with Saul and apologise for not having made myself clear in
my previous posting.

> Thus the dates for not saying tachanun end on the 12th of Sivan, six days
> after Shavuot. Tzidkatekha tzedek *was* said at minchah on Shabbat, the 13th
> of Sivan, this year, according to the custom in Israel.

The sixth day after Shavuot is the 12th Sivan. This year they would have
been (1) Monday 7th Sivan, (2) Tuesday 8th Sivan, (3) Wednesday 9th Sivan,
(4) Thursday 10th Sivan, (5) Friday 11th Sivan and (6) Shabbat 12th Sivan.
So Shabbat could possibly have been one of the six additional days and I
fear Saul was in error in his calculation.

However his observation that Tzidkatekha tzedek WAS said at minchah on
Shabbat this year would back up my original suggestion that the period for
tashlumin was deemed to have ended on the Friday in this particular year
since they could no longer be brought.

> In light of the above, I strongly suspect that Martin Stern is
> mistaken, and that there is no well-established minhag not to say
> tachanun on the 13th of Sivan.

This might be the custom of those in Chutz la'Aretz who omit tachanun during
the six days after Shavuot and count them from the second day of Shavuot.

> On the other hand, in  most years, when there *is* a Shabbat during
> the six days after Shavuot, we in Israel do *not* say Tzidkatekha
> tzedek at minchah on that Shabbat, even though the olat reiyah could
> not have been brought on that day.

That also makes sense since the PERIOD for tashlumin would not have ended -
there being only a technical reason for not bringing them on Shabbat - and
the olat reiyah could be brought on subsequent days.

As he concludes:

> This answers Martin's question.

Martin Stern


End of Volume 62 Issue 95