Volume 63 Number 29
Produced: Fri, 05 May 17 11:18:18 -0400
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Duchaning problem (2)
[Martin Stern Martin Stern]
Kaddish and Kedushah when in an 'alien' shul (was Duchaning problem) (2)
[Martin Stern Orrin Tilevitz]
Malbish Arumim other than birkat hashachar (2)
[Martin Stern Robert Rubinoff]
Mixed seating on planes (was Press bias) (2)
[Martin Stern Carl A. Singer]
Yiddish to English translation
[Yosi Fishkin, MD]
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, Apr 25,2017 at 06:01 AM
Subject: Duchaning problem
Yisrael Medad wrote (MJ 63#28):
> Martin Stern wrote (MJ 63#27):
>> ...
>> Among our group, there was an Israeli Sefardi cohen who probably had never
>> encountered the Chutz la'aretz Ashkenazi custom and, naturally went to
>> duchan at shacharit on erev Shabbat Hagadol (the first tefillah there in
>> which he could). I presume he assumed he was the only cohen present since
>> nobody else went up with him and was, therefore, not disturbed that the
>> shatz did not call out "Cohanim!". After Modim he started to say the
>> berachah and the shatz then proceeded with the duchaning in the usual
>> manner.
>>
>> Unfortunately one of the congregants objected that one does not duchan on
>> weekdays. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the matter, I feel that this was
>> not correct once the cohen has begun (bedi'eved) but there are other factors
>> that merit discussion as to what to do in the first place (lechatchilah) ...
> I encountered this situation when I accompanied a Yeshivah High School class
> to Poland.
>
> Of course, I did not object publicly but asked the Rav in charge who informed
> me that Rav Mordechal Eliyahu zt"l had paskened that due, in this case, to the
> "congregation" being school pupils, he insisted that no practice be changed so
> as not to disrupt their custom which I understood as "don't mix them up". And
> of course, I countered that to learn of the minhag not to duchan is also
> educational but that got me nowhere.
Since Rav Mordechal Eliyahu zt"l was a Sefardi and Sefardim, even in Chutz
la'aretz, duchan every day, this psak is not surprising. Yisrael does not
indicate whether the Yeshivah High School class was predominantly Ashkenazim
or Sefardim but they certainly did not include any Ashkenazi from Chutz
la'aretz. Since it is not clear why Ashkenazim do not duchan daily in Chutz
la'aretz, probably an Ashkenazi rav would have paskened similarly in the
circumstances.
Martin Stern
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Wed, Apr 26,2017 at 06:01 AM
Subject: Duchaning problem
Rabbi Daniel Geretz wrote (MJ 63#28):
> In response to Martin Stern (MJ 63#27):
> Sefardim take Maran pretty seriously, and Maran is explicit in SA OC 128:2
> about the gravity of neglecting the d'oraita mitzvat aseh of birkat kohanim
> ... The Shaliach Tzibbur did say the birkat kohanim that is recited when
> kohanim are not going to duchan, including "ha'amurah mipi Aharon u'vanav,
> kohanim..." out loud, so what was the poor Sefardi supposed to do?
Actually the cohen pre-empted him, presumably assuming that, as no other
cohen was with him, he would not say it.
> Especially since I doubt the kohen sang at the end of each of the three
> berakhot, his duchening must have slowed down the tzibbur by maybe 10 seconds.
> Unless you posit that people were in a hurry to leave because they had
> important things to do, or sat down for a learning seder immediately at the
> end of davening, I'd deem this as a case of "zeh mistaker v'zeh lo hifsid."
This was holiday situation so I hardly think anyone begrudged the cohen the
extra few seconds.
Martin Stern
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, Apr 25,2017 at 06:01 AM
Subject: Kaddish and Kedushah when in an 'alien' shul (was Duchaning problem)
Rabbi Daniel Geretz wrote (MJ 63#28):
> In response to Martin Stern (MJ 63#27):
> ...
> Perhaps a slightly similar situation arises when a Sefardi who is obligated to
> say kaddish davens at an Ashkenaz minyan which does not say V'Yatzmach
> Purkanay Viykarev Meshichay." In that situation, would one advise them to use
> their own nusach, or use the Ashkenaz nusach to avoid machloket? IIRC, the
> generally accepted advice is the former.
It depends on whom you ask. A Sefardi rav will rule as Rabbi Geretz suggests and
an Ashkenazi one would probably rule the other way. In practice, Sefardim do not
usually even ask and assume they should follow their own minhag (probably being
unaware of there being a problem), often to the irritation of the Ashkenazim.
Martin Stern
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From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Tue, Apr 25,2017 at 09:01 AM
Subject: Kaddish and Kedushah when in an 'alien' shul (was Duchaning problem)
In a discussion on birkat kohanim when a sefaradi davens in an Ashkenazi shul,
R. Daniel Gertz writes (MJ 63#28):
> Perhaps a slightly similar situation arises when a Sefardi who is obligated to
> say kaddish davens at an Ashkenaz minyan which does not say V'Yatzmach
> Purkanay Viykarev Meshichay." In that situation, would one advise them to use
> their own nusach, or use the Ashkenaz nusach to avoid machloket? IIRC, the
> generally accepted advice is the former.
I don't think that is right. Igrot Moshe OC 2:23 holds that one must recite
kedusha in the nusach of the tzibur, and that holding is brought down in Fuchs,
Hatefilah Betzibur 6:6. R. Feinstein does not there deal explicitly with
kaddish, but does distinguish between material that is said aloud and said
silently (although he also notes that the responses in kedusha are short.)
However, in OC 2:104 he holds that anything that is said aloud -- i.e.,
everything except the shmone esrai -- must be said in the nusach of the tzibur.
And that is precisely what I have observed, generally; I daven periodically in a
Nusach Sefarad shul, and those of us who davens Nusach Ashkenaz answer kedusha,
and recite kaddish, in the nusach of the tzibur. And vice versa.
The only exception I've seen is that individuals from Edot Hamizrach, including
Bukharans, quite aggressively and loudly use their own nusach in our shul. (We
don't say anything to them because it probably would do no good.)
Or could it be that Ashkenazi poskim say to use the local nusach, and Sefardi
poskim say to use your own nusach, come what may?
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, Apr 25,2017 at 06:01 AM
Subject: Malbish Arumim other than birkat hashachar
David Ziants wrote (MJ 63#28) in answer to Sammy Finkelman (MJ 63#27):
> ...
>> Cleading is a Scottish word for covering boards and things, like the Bigdei
>> Serad, and not the Bigdei Kehunah. It is usually used for the coverings of
>> boilers to keep heat in.
>
> See now above response from Immanuel Burton that "cleading" can also be used
> for "clothing" humans.
Probably "cleading" is a Scots variant of the standard English "cladding"
which is used for covering, for example, water pipes to insulate them to
avoid them freezing up in a prolonged cold spell.
Martin Stern
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From: Robert Rubinoff <rubinoff@...>
Date: Tue, Apr 25,2017 at 11:01 PM
Subject: Malbish Arumim other than birkat hashachar
David Ziants wrote (MJ 63#28):
> Immanuel Burton asks (MJ 63#27) in response to my question (MJ 63#26) on an old
> early 20th century ashkenazi siddur with English translation that has the bracha
> "Malbish Arumim" in addition to other berachot said on special occasions and
> gives instruction "on cleading news south":-
>
>> But the whole phrase makes no sense. Printers make mistakes. Is there anything
>> else peculiar in the list of Berachahs?
>
> "Mezonot" is referred to as "corn" in the "Al Hamachiya" instruction,
'Corn' in British usage means (or at least used to mean) grain in general (most
often wheat). So this is perfectly normal. It's only in American (and Canadian,
I think) usage that corn means specifically maize. (That's why the grain in
Pharoahs dream is sometimes described as corn in old translations - of course,
Pharaoh would never have seen maize.)
Robert
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, Apr 25,2017 at 06:01 AM
Subject: Mixed seating on planes (was Press bias)
There has been considerable publicity in the non-religious press whenever a
visibly chareidi man refuses to sit next to a woman on a plane.
While causing a chillul Hashem by holding up take-off in order to achieve such a
situation is completely unacceptable, the press usually presents such incidents
when involving chareidi men as if such gender preference was somehow a
despicable insult to women.
On our return from a very pleasant Pesach outside Dubrovnik, my wife and I were
allocated two window seats, one behind the other, for some reason. The other two
seats in each row were allocated to two non-Jewish couples. What struck me was
that, in both cases, the couples arranged themselves to sit so that the male sat
next to me and the female next to my wife. It would seem that generally people
prefer to sit next members of the same sex as themselves so a desire to do so is
in no way abnormal.
Does the press reporting of incidents involving chareidim therefore exhibit a
certain measure of bias?
Martin Stern
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From: Carl A. Singer <carl.singer@...>
Date: Thu, May 4,2017 at 05:01 PM
Subject: Mixed seating on planes (was Press bias)
Professional (ice) hockey has a rule which, roughly speaking, penalizes a third
player who gets involved with a fight that is going on between two players.
I had an interesting situation while boarding an El Al flight for Israel last
week and would appreciate feedback.
My wife and I were sitting in the center (4 seat across) section of a 747 Jumbo
Jet. I in the aisle, my wife next to me. A young Chadishe bocher approached
from the other aisle - his was to be the third seat -- that was next to my wife.
He asked if my wife and I would mind switching seats. (The 4th seat, the other
aisle seat was still unoccupied.)
It was a simple request and my wife and I agreed to switch seats with each
other. The reason for my inquiry was the "third man in" -- a young man, perhaps
late teens / early twenties was walking past us at that moment and exclaimed, "You
know, you don't have to move on account of him." I chose to ignore him. But it
has bothered me, not so much his being the "third man in" -- many people
believe the world is thirsting for the input / wisdom. BUT why would someone
have such an uncharitable attitude re: doing something to help another human being.
Carl Singer
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From: Yosi Fishkin, MD <Joseph@...>
Date: Mon, May 1,2017 at 01:01 AM
Subject: Yiddish to English translation
I have about 70-100 pages of handwritten Yiddish, written by my grandparents
describing their history, that I would like translated to English. Does anyone
have any suggestions who I could contact to perform this type of service?
Thank you,
Yosi Fishkin, MD
goDaven.com
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End of Volume 63 Issue 29
