Volume 64 Number 12 
      Produced: Fri, 21 Dec 18 04:01:50 -0500

Subjects Discussed In This Issue:

Bein hashemashot (was Seudah shelishit) 
    [Dr. William Gewirtz]
    [Joel Rich]
Deception in Fund Raising (4)
    [Yisrael Medad   Martin Stern  Joseph Kaplan  Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz]
    [Joel Rich]
Modern Orthodoxy? (3)
    [Carl A. Singer  Ari Trachtenberg  Orrin Tilevitz]
Saying Modim Out Loud 
    [Orrin Tilevitz]
Woman Saying the Sheva Brachot 
    [Yisrael Medad]


From: Dr. William Gewirtz <wgewirtz@...>
Date: Thu, Dec 13,2018 at 10:01 AM
Subject: Bein hashemashot (was Seudah shelishit)

Joel Rich (MJ 64#11) raises a halakhic question on restrictions on seudah
shelishit during bein hashemashot under various circumstances.

This whole area leaves me up in the air. As usual in this area, I have a view,
but I have no interest (or competence) in giving halakhic guidance.

In my view, bein hashemashot is not X minutes after shekiyah, (which is not
necessarily sunset as most assume even according to the geonim), but X minutes
before the end of Shabbat at a biblical level. I hope to write a long essay on
this topic in the next year.

This has significant practical implication; I leave it to poskim to deal with
that issue: eating after the biblical end of Shabbat before Havdalah, which
requires further analysis. Despite all that, I suspect, minhag Yisroel can as
(almost) always be defended.


From: Joel Rich <JRich@...>
Date: Sat, Dec 15,2018 at 02:01 PM
Subject: Culture

My response to a Cross Currents post on the new popular chareidi music and

As far as the general low culture issue, can we at least agree that even the
"frum" low culture does in fact represent some acculturation from the general
society around us? Some would argue that conscious awareness of this
acculturation allows us to better manage it.

My question to the group: Has history shown that non-awareness is the better

Joel Rich


From: Yisrael Medad  <yisrael.medad@...>
Date: Thu, Dec 13,2018 at 07:01 AM
Subject: Deception in Fund Raising

In MJ 64#11, Carl Singer asks what his response should be to an appeal for a
contribution which claimed he had given in the past and he hadn't.

Is he asking halachically or seicheldik [rationally; logically]?

Yisrael Medad

From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Thu, Dec 13,2018 at 07:01 AM
Subject: Deception in Fund Raising

Carl Singer wrote (MJ 64#11):

> I'm holding in my hand a letter from a tzedukah. It came in today's mail along
> with a return envelope. Among other things this letter states that in previous
> years I generously donated $XXX, would I again contribute now?
> One problem -- after checking my computer -- I see that I've never given to
> this tzedukah.
> This is, of course, not the first time that I've gotten postal mail or
> telephone calls of this type.
> What should be my response?

It is just possible that (dan lekhaf zekhut) that this 'tzedukah' may have made
a genuine mistake but if this is not the case, and it is clear that it is
telling an untruth, then I would suggest he should ignore the request and put
the whole package in the shredder. Perhaps he might record the name and address
of that 'tzedukah' so that, should he receive any further such requests, he can
write to them to express his displeasure at their unethical behaviour.

Martin Stern

From: Joseph Kaplan <penkap@...>
Date: Thu, Dec 13,2018 at 08:01 AM
Subject: Deception in Fund Raising

In response to Carl Singer (MJ 64#11):

None, other than throwing it out and not opening the next one you get from that
charity before throwing it out. With telephone solicitations, if I don't know
the caller I now say I only respond (when I do respond) to mail. And then follow
the mail advice. 


From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabbahillel@...>
Date: Thu, Dec 13,2018 at 11:01 PM
Subject: Deception in Fund Raising

In response to Carl Singer (MJ 64#11):

I give the "same amount as I gave last year". If the tzedakah seems "legitimate"
I just put it in the circular file. If I want to show what I think of this and
they send a return envelope that does not require postage, I return a note
explaining why they are not getting any money from me. This could prevent them
from sending in the future. If they have called on the phone, I refuse to
promise any amount, but say I will think about it if they send a letter, with no
guarantee. If they insist on a pledge over the phone, I tell them I will discard
their letter.

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz


From: Joel Rich <JRich@...>
Date: Sat, Dec 15,2018 at 02:01 PM
Subject: Mechila

Quoted from a rabbinic source:

"A woman called. Some of her ribs were broken. She wanted to know if she was
supposed to be mochel / forgive her husband. I told her definitely not. She
persisted - isn't it a special mitzvah, close to Yom Kippur, a segulah that
Hashem should forgive us for all our wrongdoing? It told her that it would be no
mitzvah at all."

I'm guessing there's more to the story and that the rabbinic advisor felt that
her not being mochel would have an impact on her husband's actions. If not I
would have guessed she would have been told to leave him? FWIW IIRC the only
exception to the forgiveness rule is motzi shem ra (spreading negatively about
the individual).

Any thoughts?

Joel Rich


From: Carl A. Singer <carl.singer@...>
Date: Thu, Dec 13,2018 at 07:01 AM
Subject: Modern Orthodoxy?

The several discussions of late make an assumption that I believe defies
reality: that is that lay practitioners (possibly even clergy) focus on the
tenets of their brand in deep, scholarly, reflective thoughts as opposed to
simply going with the flow.

Same goes for most [pick any classification] Jews.  

Carl A. Singer, Ph.D.
Colonel, U.S. Army, Retired

70 Howard Avenue
Passaic, NJ  07055

From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Thu, Dec 13,2018 at 12:01 PM
Subject: Modern Orthodoxy?

Chaim Casper (MJ 64#11) wrote:
> By the way, I think a better example of problematic Orthodox behavior that is 
> outside the system are those who use "half-Shabbat" as a rationalization to 
> send texts and photos on Shabbat.   I know of no source that permits that. 
> Does that mean we write them out of the community? No, it means we use our 
> resources to bring them back into the fold.

What exactly are the halachic prohibitions with sending texts and photos on Shabbat?

If you accept Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach's assessment of electricity, then
there does not appear to be an issue of touching the device buttons (assuming no
noise) or possibly even recording the picture on a solid-state device (and, if
there were, then we have other serious problems with traveling around areas that
have continuous camera monitoring, like London).

Transmitting the image to a remote server is also of questionable halachic
concern; the electro-magnetic wave is not humanly sensible, and, in fact, we are
constantly broadcasting electro-magnetic (and thermal) radiation to the world
around us through our very living.

Don't get me wrong, I don't use cellphones or computers on shabbat, and I don't
condone their use.  However, I also cannot see the halachic justification for
writing someone who does out of the community.



From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Thu, Dec 13,2018 at 09:01 PM
Subject: Modern Orthodoxy?

A couple of other points of reference to inform this discussion.

First, here's an excerpt from a 1993 post in this forum (MJ 08#46):

> I am a single, 27 year-old woman with an A.A. degree in Judaic Studies and a
> B.A. degree in Computer Science (with a minor in philosophy), both from Stern
> College (Y.U.). I also hold an M.S. diploma from Columbia University. In
> certain respects I would never label myself as "Modern Orthodox" while in
> other respects the term is overwhelmingly applicable.
> Modern Orthodoxy, with regard to areas of "tzniut"and "arayot", has come to
> imply the wearing of pants, shorts, miniskirts, low-cut blouses etc., not
> covering the hair after marriage, non-observance of the laws of negiah
> [prohibition of members of the opposite sex touching each other], mixed
> swimming etc. In this regard, I would not be considered Modern Orthodox.
> However, I fully support education, both secular and Jewish, for women. And I
> believe that if a woman wants to learn Talmud, she should have that option
> (although, I personally feel that before delving into Talmud, I should first
> master the halachot of Bassar B'Chalav [the mixing of meat and milk], Bishul
> B'Shabbat [cooking on Shabbat], etc.). And if she wants to learn in a
> Kollelet, like Drisha, she should also have that option, provided that it
> doesn't take away from her role as a Jewish wife and mother. Additionally, I
> fully support the idea of women giving lectures on Divrei Torah and Divrei
> Hashkafah (philosophy) to both men and women (Beruriah, the wife of Rabbi
> Meir, gave shiur to men). Occasionally, I attend singles weekends (I've also
> organized two in Staten Island), and have given Divrei Hashkafah at several
> of these. In this respect, I proudly wear the label "Modern."

Second, consider the following passage at p. 261 of the novel Day of Atonement
by Faye Kellerman (who apparently identifies herself as M.O.):

> 'I grew up modern Orthodox,' Rina said. We were indistinguishable from the
> rest of the neighborhood kids except that we kept kosher and observed
> shabbos. ... I remember thinking my parents were just a little hypocritical
> keeping kosher in the home but eating fish in non-kosher restaurants.


From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...>
Date: Thu, Dec 13,2018 at 08:01 AM
Subject: Saying Modim Out Loud

Gilad J. Gevaryahu writes (MJ 64#11):

> After the tefilah Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach called me aside and asked me why  
> I did not say "Modim" aloud, and I told him that I thought that the way I did 
> it was the standard way to say it. His answer was that those people who do not 
> say the entire "modim" aloud simply do not know the halacha, and that chazarat 
> hashatz must include the entire "Modim" aloud.

All the other responses to my post have also quoted or cited just Ashkenazi
poskim. I am wondering: my recent experience was at a hard-core Sepharadi shul.
Does anyone know if the Sepharadi poskim hold differently?  


From: Yisrael Medad  <yisrael.medad@...>
Date: Thu, Dec 20,2018 at 06:01 PM
Subject: Woman Saying the Sheva Brachot

An article by Rabi Tzvi Reisman in Issue 122 of Emuna Itecha suggests that the
blessings that are recited at a wedding, the Sheva Brachot or Birchot Chatanim,
are not a d'var sh'b'kedusha, possessing holiness, and as a result, the minyan
required to say them only requires "rabbim", not a "tzibur", and if that is the
case, women could also say them.

Does anyone think that having wine at the ceremony turns that into a d'var

The article can be found here, English section also, p. III:


Yisrael Medad


End of Volume 64 Issue 12