Volume 7 Number 34

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Avi Feldblum]
Holocaust Museum
         [Jonathan B. Horen]
Modern Orthodox (3)
         [Michael Ghanooni, Benjamin Svetitsky, Sara Svetitsky]
Restaurant in Washington, DC
         [Dr. Sheldon Z. Meth]
Spitting in Aleinu
         [David Kaufmann ]
Tickets to Holocaust Museum
         [Joseph Greenberg]


From: mljewish (Avi Feldblum)
Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 22:04:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Administrivia

Well, another night in Reading, so I should be able to get a few more
out. Yes, there is more stuff still in the queue. In a recent mailing,
Isaac Balbin refered to an article he wrote on the question of Pluralism
in Halacha and Judaism. He has uploaded it to the listserver, and is
available for both email and ftp access. For email retrieval send the

get mail-jewish pluralism.ps

to <listserv@...> Note that this is a postscript file, not a
plain text file. For ftp retrieval, ftp to nysernet.org, login
anonymous, cd to israel/lists/mail-jewish and get Pluralism.ps.

Avi Feldblum
mail.jewish Moderator


From: <horen@...> (Jonathan B. Horen)
Date: Mon, 10 May 93 22:09:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Holocaust Museum

>I also visited the new Holocaust Museum while I was there.  It's pretty
>well done, for the subject matter, but might have tried to relate the
>events to the ongoing genocidal wars elsewhere.  The Holocaust was
>unique (and will remain so, one prays), but all should learn some mighty
>important lessons to apply in future.  It does not appear that the cafe
>attached to the administrative wing is kosher.  This offends me.

First of all, "yes" -- all *should* learn some mighty important lessons
[from the Holocaust] to apply in the future.  But without the strongest,
most insistant emphasis on understanding what, where, when, how, and why
these things happened to six million Jews, I actively disbelieve that
anybody will learn *any* lesson to apply in the future.  People, and
this includes Jews, *must* learn that the Holocaust was, first and
foremost, a genocide based solely upon religion.  Today's episodes of
"ethnic cleansing", while nauseating, are based solely upon
differences/disputes of nationalism and/or ideology -- more often than
not the players on both sides are co-religionists, if not
co-nationalists.  As long as the statistic of "1 out of every 3
Americans do not believe that the Holocaust happened" holds true, our
primary task with the Holocaust Museum is to educate about the past.

Secondly, with regard to the restaurant not being kosher -- I agree with
Barry.  Although a large proportion of the six million Jews who were
exterminated in the Holocaust did not keep kosher, an equally large (if
not larger) number *did* keep kosher.  At the Holocaust Museum, as in
*all* public Jewish institutions, those who do not keep kosher can still
eat kosher food and be nourished; the same cannot be said for those who
do not eat treyf if there is no kosher food available.

NB:  If you are going to Washington, D.C. to visit the Holocaust
     Museum, I *strongly* urge you to visit the Vietnam Memorial,
     too.  As a Jewish Vietnam-Era Vet (USArmy Infantry), as well
     as one who has served in the IDF (Artillery), I can tell you
     that our brothers gave unceasingly of themselves during that
     ignoble war, and many (one was already too many) gave their
     lives.  Give your love and respect to the Jewish soldiers
     who died fighting, in equal measure to the love and respect
     you give to those who died without a fight, in the ovens. 

Yonatan B. Horen | Jews who do not base their advocacy of Jewish positions and
(408) 736-3923   | interests on Judaism are essentially racists... the only 
<horen@...> | morally defensible grounds for the preservation of Jews as a
                 | separate people rest on their religious identity as Jews.


From: <MDGST8@...> (Michael Ghanooni)
Date: Sun, 9 May 93 11:06:58 -0400
Subject: Modern Orthodox

I'm not quite sure why some people had difficulties with that which
Hayim Hendeles wrote.  I saw that the major thrust of his idea was that
our *adherence* to Halacha should be the same as those before us, not
that we necessarily have to do everything the same way.  We have to
follow what we have just as much as those before us followed what they
had.  That could include different Halachic viewpoints for different
people, but all of the viewpoints are based on legitimate Halachic

For example, I was at a Rabbi's place for lunch a month ago and this
Rabbi carries in the Pittsburgh Eruv on Shabbat and eats non-Glatt meat.
According to Sephardic Halacha, which I follow, he violates Shabbat and
does not eat kosher.  But according to Ashkenazic Halacha, everything is
fine.  (see SH"A O"H 345, also Yechaveh Da'at vol. 3, responsa 56) As
far as I'm concerned, he does everything properly.

The term "modern orthodox" bothers me for two main reasons:
1) It gives the impression that "other" orthodoxy in non-modern, old, 
outdated, etc.  Although there are those who say it does not give that 
impression, I see people, who associate with modern orthodox, that
have that attitude.  You may say that is not correct, but that's 
what happens.
2) Many of those who claim to be "modern" will be laxed in certain areas
of Halacha with the excuse "I don't have to do that; I'm modern."  At times,
things are outside of Halacha.

The two things mentioned above differ in that the first is about
thought, the second is about action.

Truthfully, I dislike all name-tags, but the term "modern orthodox"
especially bothers me as it seems to be misused.

Shavu'a Tov,	Michael Ghanooni

From: Benjamin Svetitsky <FNBENJ@...>
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 08:36:41 -0400
Subject: Modern Orthodox

I share Hayim Hendeles' distaste for the term Modern Orthodox and its
baggage of connotations, whether used by those who call themselves MO or
those who don't.  I can say the same for the term "Haredi."  What do you
mean, that because I don't wear a black hat I don't "fear" God and
follow mitzvot?

Anyhow, rest at ease, Hayim, because there exists a more nearly neutral
labelling scheme.  In Israel, at least, you can talk about people's
hats.  Knit kippah, black cloth kippah, black velvet kippah, black hat
(which includes streimel, spodiek, ...).  Look at a man's hat and you
can guess at his occupation, his political party, how often he goes to
minyan in the morning, what school his kids go to.  Naturally, women can
be similarly pigeonholed.  Teva va-Aretz---the magazine of the Israel
Nature Society---ran articles a few years ago on "The Hats of
Jerusalem," along the lines of "Birds of the Western Galilee."

Ben Svetitsky      <fnbenj@...>

From: Sara Svetitsky <FNBENJ@...>
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 06:11:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Modern Orthodox

The oft-repeated statement "Don't say Modern Orthodox, there is only one
Orthodoxy" makes an interesting test of one's fundamental attitude
towards things.  I have found that when people say "There is one and
only one Torah Judaism", they can mean one of two very different things.
Some mean that all shomrei mitvot Jews are Torah Jews, whether they hang
out at Toldot Aharon or Gush Etzion, learn all day or practise Judo.
Others mean that there's only one right kind of Jew to be, and I'm it,
and everyone who differs from me is not being a good Jew.  These
attitudes seem to be distributed pretty evenly over all blacknesses of
hat.  My opinion (which is probably not even worth the usual two cents)
is that some people are natural includers and others natural excluders
and the philosophical reasons brought to support one's stance usually
come later and are secondary.

                       ----------Sara Svetitsky


From: Dr. Sheldon Z. Meth <METH@...>
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 11:07:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Restaurant in Washington, DC

The George Washington Hillel told me that it is their intent to reopen
the kosher dining facility there sometime in August, presumeably under
different management.


From: David Kaufmann  <david@...>
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 11:22:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Spitting in Aleinu

The moderator commented on the custom of spitting after v'rake in
Aleinu because of its similarity to v'reek (the former meaning "and
emptiness," the latter "and spit"). 

Actually, I believe the custom has a different origin (or at least, so
it was explained to me): until v'anachnu (and we bow down) the words
refer to avodah zarah. From v'anachnu on, we are acknowledging our
submission to G-d. When we speak, saliva forms in the mouth. Thus, if
one does not spit (or have a dry mouth), one is using (taking benefit
from) that which is connected with avodah zara to praise G-d. Hence,
the custom of removing the saliva before v'anachnu.

David Kaufmann INTERNET:	<david@...>


From: <Joseph_Greenberg@...> (Joseph Greenberg)
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 09:05:53 -0400
Subject: Tickets to Holocaust Museum

I have ordered two nonrefundable, nontransferable tickets from
TicketMaster in D.C. for the Holocaust Museum for Monday, May 23 for
2:00 pm entry. I will be unable to use them, and rather than make the
donation to TicketMaster, I would rather let some one else use them. If
you are interested, send email to me directly -
     <Joseph_Greenberg@...>    - or -


End of Volume 7 Issue 34