Volume 7 Number 53

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Anim Zmiros
         [Allen Elias]
Apertment in Jerusalem
         [Sari Baschiri]
JTS cafeteria
         [Freda Birnbaum]
Likenesses of non-kosher animals
         [Claire Austin]
Norelco Shavers
Penguins (3)
         [Mike Gerver, Arthur Roth, Joseph Greenberg]
Summer Sublet in Berkeley CA
         [Richard Schultz]
Yeshiva boys being clean-shaven
         [David Kessler]
airfare, accommodations, and social activities in Israel in June
         [Harold Gellis]


From: Allen Elias <100274.346@...>
Date: 20 May 93 14:56:25 EDT
Subject: Anim Zmiros

Reply to Bob Kosovsky (vol7#48), The Rav's Z"l opposition to public
singing of Anim Zmiros reflects the reluctance to using human forms when
describing concepts about Hashem. This is an old debate between Rabbonim
and Mekubalim which Tishbi [ Eliyahu the Prophet - Mod.] will clear up.

Allen Elias,


From: Sari Baschiri <sari@...>
Date: Sat, 22 May 93 23:01:15 +0300
Subject: Apertment in Jerusalem

Does anyone own an apartment in Jerusalem that they'd like to rent for
not-too- much to a young couple who would take excellent care of it?
(References available)



From: Freda Birnbaum <FBBIRNBA@...>
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 07:09 EDT
Subject: JTS cafeteria

Eitan Fiorino, in his excellent recent post on "The Rav and YU,
a continued dialogue", comments, "I respect your right to disagree,
to say that you wouldn't want to attend such a Yeshiva.  But I do not
understand how you can declare such an institution off limits to all
Jews.  That you, or if not you then others, would hesitate to set foot
on the campus because it lends legitimacy to YU.  This is not the same
as eating lunch in the JTS cafeteria, which some wouldn't do for this
very reason."

As a person who is VERY grateful that the JTS cafeteria (not to
mention its wonderful library) is available to me most working
days to eat lunch in (I work in the neighborhood), I am puzzled at
why anyone (not Eitan) would want to put up any more obstacles to
eating in a place that virtually everybody recognizes as kosher.
Seems to me that anybody who wants to take the trouble to, can
ascertain to their satisfaction that the food is kosher.  I've
seen people eating in there who I know perfectly well don't think
many other aspects of the place are "legitimate".

Freda Birnbaum


From: Claire Austin <CZCA@...>
Date: Wed, 19 May 93 05:26:48 -0400
Subject: Likenesses of non-kosher animals

> Bernstein <bernstein@...> writes:
> many people won't keep pictures or toys in the likeness of
> non-kosher animals.

What is the reasoning behind this practice?

Claire Austin

[Same question from Neal Auman and Rena Whiteson as well.
For those with copies of old issues, this topic was discussed under the
heading of Teddy Bears in volume 2 numbers 22 and 31. Anyone want to
summarize please? Mod.]


From: <pielet@...>
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 12:13:48 CST
Subject: Norelco Shavers

My understanding is that a halachic concern was raised a few years ago
in Israel concerning Norelco 'Lift-and-Cut' shavers.  This year's Pesach
guide by Rabbi Blumenkranz stated this concern.  (I don't know if he
mentioned it in previous years.)

On the other hand, a Norelco ad I saw several years ago for the
'Lift-and-Cut' shaver stated that the blade does not touch the skin.

Howie Pielet   Internet: <pielet@...>  (East Chicago, Indiana, USA)


From: <GERVER@...> (Mike Gerver)
Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 3:49:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Penguins

In v7n47, <bernstein@...> asks whether penguins are kosher,
since they are not among the birds listed in the Torah as non-kosher.
Although generally it is not possible to say for sure that a bird is not
on this list, since it is not known what all of the birds were, it does
seem a pretty safe bet that penguins are not on the list, since neither
they, nor any close relatives of theirs, live in Israel. But that does
not mean they are kosher, since the list is not a list of birds, but a
list of flying creatures. It includes bats, for example. The criterion
for kashrut of a _flying_ creature is that it does not appear on this
list. In the case of penguins, which do not fly, they would either have
to have split hooves and chew their cud, if they are considered primarily
land animals, or have fins and scales, if they are considered primarily
sea animals. In either case, they would not be kosher.

Mike Gerver, <gerver@...>

From: <rotha@...> (Arthur Roth)
Date: Wed, 19 May 93 05:05:41 -0400
Subject: RE: Penguins

    I'd like to comment on the question asked about penguins this
afternoon.  The person asking the question says that this bird "meets
all the requirements" and "is not specifically prohibited", so I will
address both of these assertions.
    To my knowledge, the Torah does not provide any requirements for
kosher birds; it simply supplies a list of names of nonkosher birds and
permits all others by default.  Most (all?) birds of prey are on the
prohibited list, so this may be related to a de facto requirement, but
it is certainly not an official one.
    As far as the birds which are specifically prohibited, I heard
something interesting during a weekly lunch hour shiur given at Bell
Labs a few years ago which attempted to go through the 613 mitzvot one
at a time in depth.  The person giving the shiur (whose name I
unfortunately don't remember) said that since we are not sure that we
have accurate translations for the names of the birds which the Torah
prohibits (or even if we do, we don't know if the species now commonly
referred to by such a translation is the same one that the Almighty
meant when he used the corresponding Hebrew word at the time of Matan
Torah), we must have a mesorah (tradition) to tell us that any bird
which we eat is NOT on the prohibited list.  Therefore, the question
about penguins boils down to whether we have an appropriate mesorah for
this specific bird.  Does anyone know?

[Similar response from Shelden Meth - Mod.]

    In support of the preceding paragraph, the person giving the shiur
mentioned that some Jews do not eat turkeys on the grounds that their
kashruth has not been acceptably established.  Apparently, there was
some controversy when the turkey (a native American bird) was first
"discovered" by Europeans in the 1500's.  Some turkeys were brought back
to Europe, and eventually a respected rabbinical authority in India
ruled that they were so similar to another bird which had a mesorah
permitting it that the two birds could be regarded as the same (or at
least falling under the realm of the same mesorah).  This ruling was
commonly accepted, and on this basis the great majority of us eat
turkeys today.  However, there were small groups who refused to accept
this ruling, and hence there remain Jews today who refrain from eating

[Note: there was a fairly exhastive discussion on the kashrut of turkeys
in Volume 5 numbers: 28, 30, 32, 48, 52, 60, 67, 78 and 83. Mod.]

Arthur Roth

From: <Joseph_Greenberg@...> (Joseph Greenberg)
Date: Thu, 20 May 93 08:40:33 -0400
Subject: Penguins

Regarding the kashrut of penguins, isn't a criterion for the kashrut of
birds that their normal mode of locomotion be flight, because if they
waddle they may be considered similar to a sheretz (insect or rodent)?
To my knowledge, penguins never fly, like ostriches, whose feet never
leave the ground.


From: <schultz@...> (Richard Schultz)
Date: Thu, 20 May 93 17:29:01 -0700
Subject: Summer Sublet in Berkeley CA

I'm sending this in on behalf of a friend and would appreciate your
posting it.  Thanks.

Kosher apartment in Berkeley to sublet July 1 - August 1.  One bedroom,
large kitchen, yard in front.  Recently refurbished.  Call Peter
Wyetzner at 510-883-9737 or e-mail <pinax2@...> (and
specify to Peter Wyetzner in the header of your message).


From: <kessler@...> (David Kessler)
Date: Sun, 23 May 1993 13:41:37 +0300
Subject: Re:  Yeshiva boys being clean-shaven

In Re:  Eli Turkel's comment about Yeshiva boys being clean-shaven
in the early 1900's.
 There is a memoir about the WWII experiences of a Yeshiva bochur from
Kletsk who, if I remember correctly, was sent to Siberia and survived
the war there.  I believe it is published by Artscroll, and therefore is
probably in your local booksellers.  Anyway, it has the "class" photo of
the Kletsk yeshiva from the mid 1930's, with indeed all the "bochurim"
clean-shaven.  The Rosh Yeshiva of Kletsk at the time was of course R.
Aaron Kotler, Zt"l.  If memory serves me correctly, the sideburns were
also of "normal" length.
                                                David Kessler
[Along similar lines, my father told me that in Lita when he was growing
up, it was considered "disrespectful" for a Yeshiva bochur to have a
beard, and was grounds to be thrown out of the Yeshiva. Only the Rabbeim
wore beards. Mod.]


From: Harold Gellis <GELYC@...>
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 13:42:39 -0400
Subject: airfare, accommodations, and social activities in Israel in June

Can anyone provide information on any of the following topics:

1. What is the cheapest round-trip airfare from N.Y. To Israel from the end of
   May till the end of June?

2. Where can one find accommodations in Jerusalem (not hotel; but room with
   linen and towel) in either Rechavia, Kiryat Shmuel, Katamon, etc.?

3. Are there any opportunities to meet religious singles in their 30's to  late


End of Volume 7 Issue 53