Volume 7 Number 73

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Camping on Shabbat (3)
         [Hillel A. Meyers, Manny Lehman, Joseph Greenberg]
         [Warren Burstein]
Housing in Georgetown, Silver Spring, Baltimore...
         [Joseph P. Wetstein]
Kiddush Hashem
         [Lon Eisenberg]
Kohanim and bones and medical students
         [Reuven Jacks]
Minhagim for a New Baby (2)
         [Yehoshua Steinberg, Elisheva Schwartz]
         [Dr. Sheldon Z. Meth]


From: <hillelm@...> (Hillel A. Meyers)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 11:52:32 CDT
Subject: Camping on Shabbat

Jeffrey Secunda asked about references to going camping on Shabat.
Having done so as a child with my family as well as a Madrich,
counselor, in a Bnei Akiva Moshava, overnight camp, the Shabat Chutz is
a positive experience.  Especially at Moshava, it was viewed as a chevra
coagulator, usually taking place at the beginning of the camp session.

   What nicer way is there to usher in the Shabat then during the
singing of Lecha Dodi.  Turn Around by Boie VeShalom and as the sun is
setting, singing Boie Chala, Boie Chala, while listening to the crickets
singing their praises to Hashem Yitbarach.

   In the realm of halacha it was especially educational.  Much of our
halachot shabat come more alive when in a rural setting.  Within the
city an in our highly technologically advanced society, many of the
esurim, forbidden acts, are circumvented.  Many of the esurim, we are
just not in a situation for them to come up.

   A Shabat Chutz also has the potential for very negative outcomes if
the proper education is not given over.  The halachot are truly halacha
lamaaseh.  Time should be taken to explain Hilchot Eruvin, at least to
the extent they will be able to understand.  This is a great opportunity
for those children that live in a city that has a Shabat Eruv.  Being in
a situation that they will not be able to carry pass a certain point
brings alive the Esur Hotzaah that they might not realize exists except
in the seforim.  Hilchot Bishul should also be taught. In the outdoors,
Tamun is much more of an issue.  You could, of course, eat cold cuts for
the 3 meals of shabat if you want to play it save.

   In short if done right the Shabat Chutz can be a great spiritual,
halachic and social experience.

   There are a few sources of halachot that would be good to use.  One
is the sefer "Vehaya Machanecha Kadosh" by Shmuel Katz.  He was at the
time learning at Merkaz Harav in Yerushalayim.  He also wrote the sefer
Kedoshim Tehiyu om mixed youth groups.

   Seferim that deal with Hilchot Tzavah on shabat may also be of help.
I know that there are added issues that would make a halacha different
but there are certain to be overlaps, especially when pikuach nefesh is
not involved.  I am thinking of the sefer Dinei Tzavah U'Milchama.
There are probably countless others.

   In English, some of Eider's Hilchot Shabat as well as Hilchot Eruv
would be helpful.

   Bnei Akiva has internally published some guidebooks for the shabat
Chutz.  The fax number to the national office is 212-213-3053. The
address is 25 w 26th st;ny,ny 10010.  I have some of those guidebooks.
You may contact me and I will send them to you.  My copies are from 12
years ago.  They may have later ones.

Hillel A. Meyers                                 | Mail Drop: IL71
Software Solutions - Motorola Inc.               | Suite 600
3701 Algonquin Rd, Rolling Meadows, IL 60008 USA | Voice: 708-576-8195
SMTP: <hillelm@...>  X.400-CHM003  | Fax: 708-576-2025

From: Manny Lehman <mml@...>
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 05:47:25 -0400
Subject: Camping on Shabbat

With reference to Jeffrey's query I suggest that he obtains a copy of
Kedoshim Tiheyu (Be Holy) by Shmuel Katz. According to the flyleaf it is
to be obtained directly from him at NIR GALIM, DOAR NA (mobile post)
AVTACH, ISRAEL.. This was his address between 1971 and 1980 when the
first four editions appeared. Whether he is still there I don't know,
but if not I am sure they would forward any enquiry. My mocher sefarim
(bookseller) brother in Gateshead does not have it but it might be worth
enquiring locally though as a privately, though beautifully, produced
sefer it may not be on the "professional circuit".

The book, in Ivrit but quite simple to follow, discusses all the
manyfold Halachic problems that arise in Youth Movement activities. Many
of the topics listed by Jeffrey are addressed in detail.

Prof. M M (Manny) Lehman
Imperial College of Science, Technology and Medicine
Phone: +44 (0)71 589 5111, ext. 5009
email: <mml@...>

From: <Joseph_Greenberg@...> (Joseph Greenberg)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 08:55:37 -0400
Subject: Camping on Shabbat

On the issue of Orthodox Boy Scouts, I was one years ago, when we had a
troop in Riverdale. Actually, it is not clear to me that the Scoutmaster
was frum, but almost all the scouts were. We solved the comping problem
by not going on Shabbat... most of our stuff was on Sundays and
weekdays. Of course, how many troops in the early '70s in NYC went
camping at any time? So we didn't really feel like we were missing


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 21:34:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Glatt

    Rabbi Eliezer Eidlitz in "Is it Kosher?" published by Feldheim
    Publishers, 1992, discusses this on page 53, 54:

    "Until about 500 years ago, only meat from animals free of adhesions
    ("glatt") was used...

    "Nowadays, one cannot even be sure that the 'glatt kosher' meat one buys
    is truly 'glatt'.  Since only a small percentage of animals are truly
    'glatt' (sometimes only one in 20)

I have a hard time believing that up to 500 years ago the butcher had
to shect 20 head of beef in order to get one kosher one, or that the
health of animals was greater 500 years ago than it is today.

 |warren@      But the cabbie
/ nysernet.org is not all that ***.


From: Joseph P. Wetstein <jpw@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 13:06:20 -0400
Subject: Housing in Georgetown, Silver Spring, Baltimore...

I will be IY"H employed for the summer in the Baltimore-Washington Area, and
I am looking for a place to stay from July 5 - September 15. I would
like to be within walking distance to a frum shul.

If anyone has a room to rent, basement, roomate spot or just some space
available for the 2.5 months, I would appreciate it.

If anyone has any suggestions, you can contact me thru:
email: <j.wetstein@...> 
phone: 215-895-1740 day
       215-745-8543 eve

Yossi Wetstein


From: <eisenbrg@...> (Lon Eisenberg)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 01:44:36 -0400
Subject: Kiddush Hashem

Eitan Fiorino wrote:
> Was the mitzvah of love of Jews sacrificed for a dubious "kiddush hashem?"

I think this is the key to everything else he said in the same posting.  It
often amazes me how some people abuse Torah to make a point (I am not referring
to any particular point), forgetting about the above.  One may think that
a certain stringency is preferable, but on further examination, it often 
turns out that that stringency has caused a leniency (or even a lack of
observance) in "ahavat Israel" (or in some other mizvah).


From: <GJACKS@...> (Reuven Jacks)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 06:12:47 -0400
Subject: Kohanim and bones and medical students

I am a medical student in South Africa. (Don't worry, I am not a Kohen)

I have been given bones to take home for anatomy homework.  These bones
are human bones My problem is, can a Kohen come into my apartment.  I do
not know whther the bones are from a Jew or not.  Is it only Jewish
bones that defile a Kohen?  If my apartment is in fact Tamay, is that
whole block also Tamay?  Do I have to wash my hands every time I leave
the apartment?  note: I do not have a balcony to store the bones.


From: <steinbrg@...> (Yehoshua Steinberg)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 23:49:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Minhagim for a New Baby

Lou Rayman reports the _besurot tovot_ of a new baby boy -- mazal tov to
you and Ruchie!! Tizke le'gadelo le'Torah le'chupa u'lema'asim tovim.
(Aside, we had our sixth, a boy as well, three weeks ago). [Mazal Tov to
you and the whole family from the mail-jewish "family". Mod]

I don't know much about the minhagim you mentioned, but the _halchot_ of
_pidyon haben_ are detailed in Rambam Zera'im Bechorim, chap. 11, Sh.
Ar. Y.D. siman 305. In the Gemara, see perek _Yesh Bechor_ in Masechet
Bechorot (46ff), where most of these _dinim_ come from.

Yehoshua Steinberg <steinbrg@...>

[Sources also supplied by Josh Rapps, with a different Gemarah:
Gemara in Kedushin 29a (see other references cited there).


From: Elisheva Schwartz <es63@...>
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 93 8:58:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Minhagim for a New Baby

I used both of these s'gulas when my son was born.
The first (the card with Shir ha-ma'alot and the kabbalistic pictures)
was given to me by a woman from a Lubavitcher family, who told me it
was from the Rebbe.
The second (the red string) I received from a Belzer Hassid.  In my
case, it had been wound seven times around Kever Rachel, and was
supposed to be an "all-purpose" protection.
Another interesting one:  I know a number of people who put gold
jewelry all around the baby in the first days--this is supposed to
prevent jaundice.
I was also advised (again by a Lubavitcher) to bring a sefer (the title
I don't remember--perhaps someone else will know) of the lives of
Hassidic Rebbes when I went into labor.  I had a very easy time, even
though my son was 10 lbs., so it certainly worked in my case!
Mazal Tov on you new addition!
Elisheva Schwartz


From: Dr. Sheldon Z. Meth <METH@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 08:47:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Techeles

Re" Lon Eisenberg's questions on Techeles

The Radziner Rebbe, ZY"A, claimed to have discovered the source of
techeles (the chilazon, a sea creature indigenous to the shores of the
portion of the Tribe of Zevulun, i.e. the Med coast of Israel).  He
instructed his Chassidim to wear their tzitzis dyed with the blood of
this creature.  To this day they do.  There was a discussion at that
time among Chassidim about the merits of them adopting this practice,
but none did, with the exception of a few Breslav Chassidim, who, since
their Rebbe was on the Olom Ha'Emes [the True World] anyway, felt no
slight to their Rebbe's honor in adopting the Radziner practice.  As to
the Chofetz Chayim having worn it, I find that unlikely.  On the other
hand, in their responsa, many Chassidishe Rebbes were not violently
opposed (although none endorsed it outright), and some indicated that
from the Rambam it appears that wearing colored tzitzis is not meakev
[invalidate] the Mitzvah anyway, regardless of the source of the dye.

As to the avoidance of wearing arba kanfos [4-cornered garments], while
it is true that Tsitsis is "optional" in that one is not *required* to
wear arba kanfors, which would obligate him to wear tzitzis, the merits
and protections of wearing them has been discussed by many gedolim
(including a recent one [discussion, that is]) on this net.


End of Volume 7 Issue 73