Volume 8 Number 57

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Administrivia - Archive Reorganization
         [Avi Feldblum]
New Moshiach List
         [Rabbi Benzion Milecki]
Tisha B'av Question
         [Joshua Hosseinoff]


From: mljewish (Avi Feldblum)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 18:37:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Administrivia - Archive Reorganization

I spent some time reorganizing the mail-jewish archives. 

Here is what the upper level directory looks like, if you are coming in
via ftp or gopher.

00-mail.jewish.Index	fullindex		volume5/
Postscript/		rav/			volume6/
Software/		volume1/		volume7/
Special_Topics/		volume2/		volume8/
Women/			volume3/
e-a/			volume4/

Note: any directory named e-a should be ignored by ftp and/or gopher
folks. What it contains is the split versions of files in other
directories for the email archive server. For those using the email
archive server, the files in the Software, Special_Topics and rav
directories are listed as being in the mail-jewish archive. The files in
the various volume directories are listed as mail-jewish/volumeX.

If you are coming in through gopher (details will vary depending on the
gopher, but it should be something like: Other Gophers / North America /
USA / New York / NY - Israel Project at Nysernet / Jewish Lists /
mail-jewish ) and you go down to to volume1 or volume2, which has single
files for years in volume1 and a single file for volume2, at least two
of the gophers I tried recognized the file as a mail file and broke it
down into the individual issues for reading.

Anyone who understands what I need to do to have a WAIS searchable index
entry, please let me know and I will try and put that up.

The files in the Postscript directory are not all currently available
for email retrieval. They are large and will have to be broken up, and
then you will have to re-assemble them when you get them by email. If
you would like them available by email retrieval, let me know and I can
set it up. 

Some files that have been added to the archives:


>From Hillel Markowitz (<h_markowitz@...>)

The entire Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit being shown at the Library of
Congress is available via anonymous ftp to seq1.loc.gov, in the
directory /pub/deadsea.scrolls.exhibit including gif files of many if
not all of the items on display.

The list of files/directories is available on the email archive as:

get mail-jewish deadsea.filelist

or by ftp/gopher in the Special_Topics mail-jewish archive directory


From: Gary Levin <levin@...>

Below is a list that I ftp'ed from (CADADMIN.CADLAB.VT.EDU). This is a
bulletin board for vegetarians. Apparently, many vegetarians are careful
about animal products found in food. Perhaps this list may be of good
use to the Jewish community. I am not endorsing any group or is there
any guarantee that the information is correct.

File is available as:

get mail-jewish vegelist

or by ftp in the Special_Topics mail-jewish archive directory


Volume 2 has been put in it's place, in directory volume2. A single file
mail file for the full volume, as well as a Table of contents for the
volume. Tables of Contents for 1986-1991 have also been placed in the
volume1 directory.


The postscript version hardcopy files of mail-jewish are located in the
Postscript directory. 


From: "C. Austin" <CZCA@...>

I extracted all the mail-jewish postings from the archives and
I'm sending them to you in five files according to the volume
number in which they originally appeared.

Claire Austin

They are available by email archive as

get mail-jewish women.vX

where X is 3,4,5 or 7

or by ftp/gopher in the Woman mail-jewish archive directory

Avi Feldblum
mail.jewish Moderator


From: <benzion@...> (Rabbi Benzion Milecki)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 13:09:23 -0400
Subject: New Moshiach List

8                                                                    8
8                      Hear Ye!  Hear Ye!                            8
8                                                                    8
8                    We announce the birth                           8
8                                                                    8
8                     On Tisha B'Av, 5753                            8
8                              of                                    8
8                                                                    8
8                           MOSHIACH                                 8
8                                                                    8
8       The Moshiach list, born Tisha B'Av, is now available.        8
8                                                                    8
8       Just send a message to <listserv@...>,         8
8                     leave subject blank,                           8
8                      turn off signature                            8
8                                                                    8
8        and in message type: sub moshiach firstname lastname        8
8                                                                    8
8      First postings will be early next week, so get on board.      8


We will publish materials from traditional Jewish sources on Moshiach
and Redemption and will also include articles by contemporary writers.
Questions (and answers) are welcome but polemics will be discouraged.

          This is a forum for learning, not for debating.

If you want to learn about Moshiach, or you want to contribute articles,
ideas, sources, translations, etc. about Moshiach, so that others can
benefit, then this list is for you.

You can send messages to me at <benzion@...> or submit messages for
posting at <moshiach@...>

Rabbi Benzion Milecki
South Head & District Synagogue
15 Oceanveiw Ave., Dover Heights. 2030. NSW.
Tel: +612 371 7656
Fax: +612 371 7416


From: Joshua Hosseinoff <hosseino@...>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 17:58:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Tisha B'av Question

In Volume 8 Number 53, <Janice.Gelb@...> (Janice Gelb) writes:

> Someone mentioned to me in a conversation tonight that there is a heter
> based on a Gemara somewhere claiming that one doesn't need to fast all
> 24 hours for Tisha B'Av, but only until about 2 in the afternoon because
> we are not entirely in galut as long as we have Jerusalem again.

When I was in London two years ago for Tisha B'av, that year Tisha b'av
fell on Shabbat so it was nidcheh (pushed off) to Sunday the Tenth of Av. 
One thing that surprised me was that a lot of people were ending their
fast at around 2PM after they davened Mincha, and even one of the
restaurant's in Golder's Green opened up after the early Mincha.  When I
asked someone how they could do this, he told me that Tisha B'av, unlike
the other fasts, is specifically tied to the day and when it is pushed off
a day because of shabbat, there is an opinion that holds that you only
have to fast until the afternoon after you daven mincha.  As you may know,
the Issur of eating meat during Av applies until midday of the TENTH of Av
because the Beit Hamikdash continued to burn until then.

Now, as for a reference in the Gemara, here is what I found in the Sefer
Shearit Yosef Volume 4 #25, by Rav Shlomo Wahrman (the translation is mine
and so are any errors) on the subject of Tisha B'av Shenidcheh: The Gemara
in Eruvin (41a):" Rabbi Elazar ben Rabbi Tzadok said: I was of the sons of
Sna'av from the tribe of Binyamin. One time Tisha B'av fell on Shabbat and
was pushed off to Sunday, and we fasted but did not complete the fast
because it was our Yom Tov."  And Rashi explains that the lottery for
bringing a wood offering for that family was on the Tenth of Av during the
days of Ezra, and it was a Yom Tov for them forever.  And it is brought
down in the Tur Oreach Chaim 559 that one year Tisha B'av fell on Shabbat
and was pushed of to Sunday and Rabbeinu Ya'avetz was a Ba'al Brit (does
this mean his son's brit or he participated in one?) and he davened Mincha
early in the afternoon and he washed (or bathed) and did not complete his
fast because it was a Yom Tov for him - and his source was the case of Rav
Elazar bar Tzadok.
And further on in the Tshuvah Rabbi Wahrman writes: And I saw in the
Maharsh"am Volume 3 #363 who wrote that Tisha B'av that is pushed off to
Sunday is a Tashlumin (make-up) for the previous day and is not and
individual chiuv for that day and therefore a minor who became 13 years
old on that day (Tenth of Av) would not have to fast (since he was not
required to the day before) and a source for this is Siman 559 in Oreach
Chaim that 9th of Av pushed of to Sunday a "Ba'al Brit" may eat since it
is a Tashlumin.  And the Chazon Ish asks on this: "Is the tashlumin of
Tisha B'av less than Tisha B'av itself?" and concludes that the reason for
the leniency on Tisha B'av shenidcheh is that it was not the day that the
events happened. 

Josh Hosseinoff


End of Volume 8 Issue 57