Volume 9 Number 70
                       Produced: Mon Oct 25 19:49:54 1993

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

De-Sanctifying Holy Sites
         [Hillel A. Meyers]
Jerusalem One Gopher Access
         [Zvi Lando]
Kel Elyon
         [Michael Kramer]
Kosher in Cherry Hill, NJ
         [Marc Meisler]
M & M's (Revival)
         [Steven Edell]
Mechirat Chametz
         [Mayer Danziger]
Oseh Shtai Batei Nirin
         [Andy Goldfinger]
Pronunciation of Name of Hashem
         [Bob Werman]
Proper Pronunciation
         [Aryeh Frimer]


From: hillelm%<dublin@...> (Hillel A. Meyers)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 09:48:30 -0500
Subject: De-Sanctifying Holy Sites

   David Ben-Chaim asks the Jews of galut to tell him the halachot
concerning abandoning holy places (synagogues, etc.) to goyim.

   David mentions the movement of Jews in Chicago from West Rogers Park
to Skokie For those that know Chicago, West Rogers Park is still a
vibrant Jewish Neighborhood and is in no way losing membership to
Skokie.  WRP in the past year has established an Eruv which is
indicative that the neihborhood is not considered in transition.

   Just wanted to clear up any misunderstandings,

Hillel A. Meyers - Software Research and Development | Mail Drop: IL71
Corporate Software Center - Motorola Inc.        | Suite 600
3701 Algonquin Rd, Rolling Meadows, IL 60008 USA | Voice: 708-576-8195
SMTP: <hillelm@...>  X.400-CHM003  | Fax: 708-576-2025
SMTP MacMail: <hillel_meyers@...>


From: Zvi Lando <lando@...>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 23:55:46 -0400
Subject: Jerusalem One Gopher Access


I would like to invite one and all to access our Gopher. This Gopher is
exclusively about Jewish/Israeli Issues and is one of a kind. A lot of
work has gone into it in order to make it as professional as possible and
as easy to use. A search program such as Jughead or Veronica will be added

Please let me know if you have any comments/suggestions and/or if you have
any info which you would like to have set up on the gopher.

News of new services on Jerusalem One appears in a newsletter called
"One-Announce" through our listserv. To subscribe:

Mail to: <listserv@...>
Text: sub one-announce <firstname> <lastname>

With the Text as: list - you will be emailed a list of our discussion

Below is info on how you can access the Jerusalem One Gopher:


Zvi Lando                              Email: <lando@...>
Jerusalem One Network Manager          Fax: 9722 964588
Ben-Labrat St. 6                       Phone: 9722 662242
Jerusalem, Israel                      Phone: 9722 662232

              Knesset Phone: 9722 753820


In order to access the Jerusalem One Gopher, you must type:

gopher jerusalem1.datasrv.co.il

at your prompt. This means that your system must have a gopher server on
it. If you don't have this, I suggest that you speak with your systems
manager and ask him/her if it can be done.

Also - The Jerusalem One Gopher can be accessed through most other
gophers. Just look for the directory which usually says something like:

"Gopher around the world" or "Other Gophers" and then go to the
Middle-East Gophers. Jerusalem One is on this list.

FYI - the Jerusalem One gopher and the Israel-Nysernet Gophers are
connected to each other.

Once inside the Jerusalem One Gopher, you can "choose" directories either
by typing the number of the directory or by moving the cursor with the up
and down arrows.


From: <mpkramer@...> (Michael Kramer)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 08:37:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Kel Elyon

A coincidental/providential footnote to my last posting regarding the
nikud for "tehilot lekel elyon": As it turns out, parshat lekh lekha is
the origin of the kinui (designation) "kel elyon." It is first used by
Malki-Zedek, who is described as a "kohen lekel elyon" ("a priest to G-d
the most high").  He blesses Avram "lekel elyon," and Avram's response
includes the phrase, "el Hashem kel elyon." The kinui also appears in
Tehillim 78:35.  Although the kinui as used by Malki-Zedek can be
interpreted as referring to some other deity (with Avram's response
being a subtle correction), the term in our tefilla is clearly a kinui
and , therefore, would not take a definite article.  Michael Kramer UC


From: Marc Meisler <mmeisler@...>
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 20:57:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Kosher in Cherry Hill, NJ

I am going to be in Cherry Hill, NJ on November and was wondering if there
are any kosher restaurants there or if the only ones are in Philadelphia.
Thanks a lot.

Marc Meisler


From: Steven Edell <edell@...>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 18:45:00 -0400
Subject: M & M's (Revival)

A very frum friend of mine has just told me that the Australian Rabbi
who gave the 'Hashgacha' for M&M's has passed away, and they are now
being made w/o hashgacha.

Could anyone confirm/deny/verify this for us?

Steven Edell, Computer Manager   Internet:<edell@...>
United Israel Appeal, Inc                   <uio@...>
(United Israel Office)            Voice:  972-2-255513
Jerusalem, Israel                 Fax  :  972-2-247261


From: diverdan!<mayer@...> (Mayer Danziger)
Date: 25 Oct 93 19:22:49 GMT
Subject: Mechirat Chametz

Lon Eisenberg questions Aryea Frimer's distinction between Mechirat Chametz
(circumventing a Biblical prohibition) and Mechirat Eretz (circumventing a
rabbinical decree).
> IMHO, this is not a valid argument.  Let's not forget that according to
> the Torah, it is sufficient to simply declare our hamez (leaven) hefker
> (ownerless).  It is only rabbinic to sell it to a non-Jew.

If one completely rids their home of chametz and makes Bitul Chametz
(hefker) then the Mechirat Chametz is rabbinical (or unneccasary). But,
if one intends to keep their chametz during Pesach under lock and key
(e.g. grocery store owner) and does not want to render their chametz
ownerless or literally "dust of the earth", then Mechirat Chametz *is*
removing the biblical isur of chametz ownership. For this reason some
people prefer not to sell their "biblical chametz" (bread) and only sell
their "rabbinic chametz" (mixed ingredients).


From: Andy Goldfinger <andy_goldfinger@...>
Date: 25 Oct 1993 10:51:46 U
Subject: Oseh Shtai Batei Nirin

   There are 39 Av Melachos (types of activity forbidden on Shabbos).
These Av Melachos function as paradigms which we generalize into Toldos
(derivatives) that themselves form categories of activity not permitted
on Shabbos.

   Thus, there is an An Melacha called "dash" (threshing), which
literally means the physical separtation of wheat from chaff.  This is
generalized into other Toldos that involve the separation of materials
that are organically bound to one another.  The squeezing of a lemon for
its juice is therefore a Tolda of dash, as is the milking of a cow.

For each of the Av Melachas, there are many Toldos and many examples of
activity that we have to watch out for in observing Shabbos.  But --
there seems to be one exception.  One of the Av Melachos is a step
involved in the preparation of a weaving loom.  It is called "Oseh Shtai
Batei Nirin (making two "beit nir"s).  A beit nir is one of the loops
that used to lift alternate threads on the loom so a shuttle can passed
between them (a diagram is really necessary to understand this, but the
details are irrelevant to the question I am asking here.)

I have asked many people if they know of any Tolda of this Melacha.  Do
they know of any activity in any domain of endeavor other than weaving
that comes into this category?  So far, no one I have asked has come up
with an answer.  Does anyone know of a Tolda of this Av Melacha, or is
this a unique Av that does not have Toldos?


From: <RWERMAN@...> (Bob Werman)
Date: Mon,  25 Oct 93 18:56 +0200
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Name of Hashem

 The psak that A. Roth mentions about 30 years ago that all
 Sephardic pronunciation is allowed someone brought up
 Ashkenazi EXCEPT hashem's name ['noy vs. 'nai] and attributes
 to the late Jerusalem Chief Rabbi Frank is more like 40 years
 old and was [also?] made by Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi Herzog and
 is found in his collected Shu"t.

 I would also like to apologize to the siddur Kol Bo; recent
 editions now show "morid ha-geshem [segol-segol]" for all

 Shavu'a tov.

 __Bob Werman


From: Aryeh Frimer <F66235@...>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 08:34 O
Subject: Proper Pronunciation

  Reb Yossie Bechhofer is correct:  the singular is "Reish Galuta"  and
the Plural "Reishei Galvata"; the singular is "Reish Metivta" and the
plural "Reishei Metivata". I stand corrected.
   Lon Eisenberg has brought to my attention that the smichut of
"Shalom" is "Shlom"; hence, the Friday nite get-together before a Brit
should be called a "Shlom Zakhar"  (peace of/for the male) and not
"Shalom Zachar". Similary it should be "Shlom Bayit" and not "Shalom


End of Volume 9 Issue 70