Volume 10 Number 97
                       Produced: Wed Dec 29 13:28:49 1993

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

10 sons of Rav Papa
         [Zishe Waxman]
10th of Teves
Jewish Adoption (3)
         [Dvorah Art, Josh Klein, Mitch Berger]
Kashrus Query
         [Zev Kesselman]
Levels of obligation for kiddush
         [Jeff Mandin]
         [Rachel Sara Kaplan]
Public Domain Hebrew Fonts for the Mac
         [Joseph P. Wetstein]
Torah question (From Barak Moore)
         [Barak Moore]
Wedding invitations
         [Rick Turkel]
weekly parasha
         [Dana-Picard Noah]
What remains, Jewishly
         [Josh Klein]


From: <waxman@...> (Zishe Waxman)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 02:02:09 -0500
Subject: RE: 10 sons of Rav Papa

Steven Friedell asked about the list of the 10 sons of Rav Papa listed
at the siyum of a masechta.

I recall the occasion of a siyum in a shiur of R. Y. B. Soloveichick,
ZTL.  The shiur was generally crowded but on this occasion it was packed
to the rafters. The Rav pointed out that at the end of a masechta we
find a list of ten sons of Rav Papa, but we never find these names in
the gemara proper.  He said that when he looks around the room at all
the unfamiliar faces, he understood the list of names: "When you make a
siyum, everyone shows up!"

Zishe Waxman


From: <eeh@...>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1993 15:55:21 -0500
Subject: 10th of Teves

The Avoudarahm makes the comparison of the language between the 
10th of Teves and Yom Kippur wherein both places use the identical
phrase "...on this day."



From: DVORAH%<HUJIAGRI@...> (Dvorah Art)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 03:04:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Jewish Adoption

I have heard that it is preferable to adopt a non jewish child beause
one doesn't have to worry about possible mamzerut.

From: Josh Klein <VTFRST@...>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 14:44 N
Subject: Jewish Adoption

Contrary to what my learned colleague Ben Svetitsky may believe, there
is indeed a shortage of Jewish babies for adoption. I'm familiar with
several cases where the adopting parents deliberately chose non-Jewish
children for reasons based mostly on the question of "Who is a Jew?".
For obvious socio- economic reasons, the majority of biological parents
of children who are adopted are not bound to the local Jewish community;
cases of non-halachic conversion in previous generations may confuse
issues, as may questions of mamzerut in cases of divorce in past
generations. In cases where the child is indeed Jewish by appropriate
standards, the organizations involved frequently are very intrusive in
the interviews of the aprospective adopting parents. For these reasons,
among others, Jewish parents choose to adopt non-Jewish babies.  Texas,
with its liberal (as far as the adopting parents are concerned) laws on
how soon you can take a child out of the state after adoption, is a
favored location for finding adoptable babies.  

Now, a question: if a child is born of a Kohen or Levi father, and a
Yisrael family adopts him or her, do the various halachot regarding the
childs tribal affiliation change too?

Josh Klein VTFRST@Volcani

From: <mitch@...> (Mitch Berger)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 15:45:21 -0500
Subject: Jewish Adoption

I know three people in the US that try to find Jewish homes for Jewish
	-My wife, Siggy Berger (201) 473-8113
	-Jewish Children's Adoption Network, Vicky Krausz Denver 573-8113
	 (I don't know the area code. I only know the phone number because it
	  so oddly resembles my wife's business line.)
	-Heart-to-Heart (Children w/ Down's), R. Goldstock Brooklyn

In addition, the Agudah and Ohel's foster care arm dabble in it occasionally.

It is very hard to find a healthy white newborn, a Jewish one is even more so.
Our people tend not to use this gov't agencies unless necessary. So, you will
probably go through a lawyer, and require $15-20,000.

Most of the kids my wife deals with are handicapped, often Down's Syndrome.
These kids in particular are grabbed up my Xian agencies with an eye to
"save" them.

My wife once found 19 Down's kids living with a Mormon lady in Utah.
They were smuggled out of Israel via Brigham Young U. on Mt. Scopus.
When the case was found, Utah conformed to the pro-forma by giving my
Vicky Krausz and my wife chance to place them. 2 days! 3 kids of the 19
were placed, a neis nigleh (obvious miracle) in itself.

Many Rabbis recommend not adopting a Jewish child so as not to deal with the
problem of safek mamzer (someone who may or may not be conceived by a married
woman and another man). Since this child was put up for adoption, the chance
of mamzeirus is significant enough for Halachah to worry about it. A safek
mamzer could only marry a convert, and then the children too would be in the
same doubt.

There are two major problems with this advice:
1- If Jews don't take this child in, we know who will.
2- Adoption today is not the closed book that it was 20 years ago. It is
   possible for a rav to ascertain from the birth mother the status of the
   child before adoption.

Interesting sociological note:
Overwhelmingly, non-healthy children are adopted either by a Kollel family
or by ba'alei teshuvah. I guess the rest of us lack the idealism???



From: Zev Kesselman <ZEV%<HADASSAH@...>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 16:02 JST
Subject: Kashrus Query

	For many years, I have desisted from drinking "Southern Comfort",
having heard there was a question about its kashrus.  Now my brother is
visiting from abroad, and he brought me a bottle, saying his LOR has
investigated the matter and finds that its ok enough for him (the LOR)
to use.  My brother didn't look into the matter any more than that.
	This may sound ridiculous, but does anyone know:
1) what was the question? 2) what was the answer?  :-)

				Zev Kesselman


From: Jeff Mandin <jeff@...>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 17:52:32 -0500
Subject: Levels of obligation for kiddush

Mindy Schimmel raises the issue that a man who has davened Maariv(and
thus no longer has a d'oraitha[Torah-level] obligation) might not be able 
to "be motzi"[exempt] a woman who still has the Torah-level obligation.

The Aruch Ha-shulchan discusses this - I don't have the reference- and 
concludes that to exempt someone else one only needs to _have been_
subject to the same level of obligation.  According to those who say
women are not obligated in Havdalah, then, a woman could not exempt a
man.  But since the man making Kiddush _did_ have the Torah obligation
he is able to exempt the woman.

Jeff Mandin


From: Rachel Sara Kaplan <rachelk@...>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 13:10:50 -0500
Subject: Moshiach

  As it is Christmas time for the Christians, some of my co-workers were
asking me why Jew's don't believe in Jesus.  I explained that basically,
he didn't achieve any of the things that I am aware of that the messiah
is supposed to achieve.  There was no peace on earth, the temple was not
restored, all people did not turn to Hashem and recognize him as the
One, true G-d.

After I had left work I realized I didn't mention another thing, but
since my knowlege of what Judaism says about the Moshiach is very
minimal I thought I would ask a question here.  Does being Moshiach make
that person a "Son of G-d" any more than any other person.  It seems to
me that _even if Jesus_ had been the Moshiach he wouldn't have been the
"Son of G-d" that the Christians claim him to be.  Am I wrong?



From: <jpw@...> (Joseph P. Wetstein)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 17:52:41 -0500
Subject: Public Domain Hebrew Fonts for the Mac

I would appreciate it if anyone knows where to get Hebrew fonts for
the Mac, please write.

[You can start with the Nysernet ftp area in israel/software/macintosh,
there is some Hebrew font there. Mod.]



From: Barak Moore <cquinn@...>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 12:44:05 EST
Subject: Torah question (From Barak Moore)

What is the symbolic significance to the following simliarity?  The
cover of the ark, Adam and Chava (and therefore all humanity), and Am
Yisrael were all complex and formed out of a single unit of material.


From: <rmt51@...> (Rick Turkel)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 09:57:41 EST
Subject: Re: Wedding invitations

Philip Trauring (<philip@...>) wrote in m-j V10 #88 asking for
sources for the following "generic" story:

>A rabbi living in Russia/Eastern Europe? had a daugther getting married,
>and sent out invitations to all his family and friends. The invitations
>said something to the effect of 'We request the honor of your presence
>at the wedding of our daugther [sic] on such and such a date, in the holy
>city of Jerusalem. If, on the off-chance, the masciach has not come by
>then, the wedding will take place in HOMETOWN.'

This isn't any fable or unusual occurrence.  I've received several
similar wedding invitations within the past few years from some Chabad
friends who live in Crown Heights, so I assume it must be a common
Lubavitch minhag.  (Of course, it only has significant impact outside of
Israel -- what's the big deal about making a wedding in Jerusalem if you
live there?!)

Rick Turkel         (___  ____  _  _  _  _  _     _  ___   _   _ _  ___
(<rmt51@...>)         )    |   |  \  )  |/ \     |    |   |   \_)    |
Rich or poor,          /     |  _| __)/   | __)    | ___|_  |  _( \    |
it's good to have money.            Ko rano rani,  |  u jamu pada.


From: <dana@...> (Dana-Picard Noah)
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 93 13:40:50 +0200
Subject: weekly parasha

In answer to a question of Joseph Kaszynski (24/12/93):
You can contact Alan Broder ( <ajb@...> ) to get on the direct
e-mail list for HaMaayan. It's worth.
Noah Dana-Picard.


From: Josh Klein <VTFRST@...>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 15:14 N
Subject: What remains, Jewishly

David Gerstman wanted to know what observances remain in assimilated
families, and cited MIke Wallace's saying Sh'ma every night. In my
experience, attending a siyum in order to 'avoid' the Fast of the First
Born erev Pesach is one ofthe things that stick. I've been asked about
'First born services', 'the prayers for the first born', 'the special
prayers the day before Passover' and the like by men who otherwise show
up in shul on 2 or 3 days of the year, and who certainly are not
concerned with 10 Tevet being on a Friday or even with 9 Av being on a
Sunday. I've seen this in small (Jewishly) towns such as Ithaca, State
COllege (PA), EastLansing (MI), and Auckland, NZ, and the questioners
are frequently people who have been in these towns for 2 or more
generations. I first saw this in the Boston area when I was a kid, and
my father says that he noticed the phenomenon in small towns in upstate
NY when *he* was a kid.  As a side note, I was recently told that having
a siyum to avoid Ta'anit Bechorot is an Ashkenazi thing, and that
Sefardi men just fast.

Josh Klein VTFRST@Volcani


End of Volume 10 Issue 97