Volume 11 Number 16
                       Produced: Sat Jan  8 23:49:33 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Burial of non-Jews
         [Warren Burstein]
Chanukah as a vestige of observance
         [Susan Hornstein]
         [David Kaufmann ]
Music and Tehillim
         [Jack A. Abramoff]
new phenomenon: Kiddush Clubs -uugh!
         [Barry Siegel]
Query about "son of G-D"
         [Sigrid Peterson]
Weekly Parsha
         [Jack Reiner]


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 94 17:38:36 -0500
Subject: Burial of non-Jews

Recently in Israel there was an issue concerning an Beduin army officer
(a general, I think, I didn't pay much attention to the story) who was
buried in a military cemetery, and there was a controversy about in
which part of the cemetery he ought to be buried.

At seudah shlishit last Shabbat we were discussing the above, one of
those present, Rabbi Moshe Halbertal mentioned a teshuva of Rav Moshe
Feinstein zt"l which might be relevant (although he added that as no
one had asked him what to do, so he had not fully explored the
issue).  The question was asked whether a Conservative convert could
be buried in a Jewish cemetery.  Although Rav Moshe ruled that
Conservative conversions could never be valid, he permitted the
burial, as the reason that non-Jews are not to be buried among Jews is
"a righteous person should not be buried next to a wicked person", and
there was no reason to assume that the deceased's observance of
mitzvot differed from that of others in the cemetery.

/|/-\/-\       The entire auditorium		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very cold carrot.
 |warren@      But the chef
/ nysernet.org is not concerned at all.


From: <susanh@...> (Susan Hornstein)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 93 16:31:52 -0500
Subject: Chanukah as a vestige of observance

Since we are sharing Jewish observances found in barely or newly observant
people, with an emphasis on Chanukah, I thought I'd share this experience:
I have been involved in Bar/Bat Mitzvah tutoring for some time, and for a
while was extensively involved in tutoring non-observant students, for
Bar/Bat Mitzvahs that contained many traditional elements but would not
be recognized by most of us as halachic observances.  My feeling then,
and now, is that I provided a service by exposing these kids and their
families to authentically observant Jews (myself & my friends) and gave
them perhaps the most authentically Jewish experience of their young lives.
(I'm sure this could generate much discussion, but it's not really my point.)
When driving me home one night, the mother of one of my students shared
the following anecdote.  She grew up in a home that kept a number of
traditional Jewish observances, but was not really too observant.  She
was interested and involved in these observances at the time.  She lost
her faith, she related, when she got married and her mother handed her
the family's Chanukiah saying, "We won't be needing this any more, now
that you're leaving.  We were just doing it so that you could experience
it. (loosely quoted)"  She felt that this was an inauthentic reason for
doing it, and if her interest had been motivated by such inauthenticity,
there was no reason to continue.  (P.S. Remember, this conversation
took place in the context of her child's Bar/t Mitzvah, so perhaps Chanukah 
wasn't the FINAL vestige, but rather an avenue back still existed.)
Susan Hornstein


From: David Kaufmann  <david@...>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 93 16:31:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Moshiach

On questions about Moshiach, some resources are:

the 800 number, 1-800-4-MOSHIACH. (It has a basic, introductory message,
as well as a new one each week on concepts and laws of Moshiach.)

the Moshiach list.

_Mashiach_ by J.I. Shochet - essential sources and analysis. This and
other pamphlets/books are available from SIE, 770 Eastern Pkwy,
Brooklyn, NY 11213

There is also a weekly fax sheet available.

David Kaufmann INTERNET:	<david@...>


From: Jack A. Abramoff <71544.2433@...>
Date: 01 Jan 94 21:52:03 EST
Subject: Music and Tehillim

I heard a story which I recall as follows: a recent (within this century)
European Gadol who, on a stroll through a park in London with his
talmidim, encountered a classical music concert in the park.  At one
point, within ear-shot of the music, the Rav flinched and told his
talmidim that the orchestra did not play the piece correctly.  His
talmidim, who did not know the Rav as a great music enthusiast, were
taken aback by this comment and approached the conductor when the the
concert was completed.  They asked the conductor if he did make a mistake
and were told that yes, in one part, one group of instruments were
brought in too soon.  The conductor indicated that he was quite impressed
that they would know this and they indicated that they did not, but their
Rabbi did.  He said that this Rabbi must have had tremendous training to
know this.   When they approached their Rav, he told them that he had no
training, but anyone who was familiar with Tehillim (Psalms) would know
the correct order by which instruments are to be brought into music.  This
order was maintained throughout the centuries (from the Beis HaMikdash -
the Holy Temple in Jerusalem - until Bach and Beethoven, who was the first
to start to alter it).  I was wondering if anyone has heard this story and
can give me any corrections in it?

Furthermore, I was also told that the Lubavitcher Rebbe has written on
this subject - the relationship between musical structure and Sefer
Tehilim.  Does anyone know of this publication or writing or anything else
by any author (in any language) on this topic?  Please reply to my email

Thank you
Jack Abramoff


From: <sieg@...> (Barry Siegel)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 93 09:57 EST
Subject: new phenomenon: Kiddush Clubs -uugh!

I have noticed a rather unfortunate "custom" forming in some synagouges
called "Kiddush Clubs".  As I see it, Kiddush Club's are formed by some
men folk who walk out after Torah reading on Shabbat and make their own
kiddush (with whiskey & cake) in private while shooting the breeze.
These folks stay out during the reading of the Haftorah, the Rabbi's
speech, and return to Davening [prayer-service] for Musaf.

Is this a new American, orthodox development?  I would venture to say
this Kiddush Club idea is not practiced by our reform/conservative
brethern.  Do these "Kiddush Clubs" appear in Israel or are they an
American invention?  My gut feeling tells me that the pre-war, European
Shuls would have shown more respect and reverence for Davening and their

A friend has recently told me a variation that in other "frum"
neighborhoods, he has heard of folks leaving during Musaf repetition,
indulging in pre-kiddush and not going back to complete Davening.
Please do not confuse this with the practice of Bal-abatim [members]
leaving during Musaf repetition for the specific purpose of setting up
the congregation Kiddush following services.

I would like to know exactly which Halacha this Kiddush Club violates.
Is one allowed to make Kiddush before Musaf (especially when Musaf will
be very soon)?  (I know that Simchat Torah is a very special case and we
allow ourselves to make kiddush early due to time constraints.)
Certainly the disrespect shown for the Rav & Congregation are beyond

Lastly, have any synagouges been successful in terminating these Kiddush
Clubs.  I realize that people will say that "there are always a few bad
apples in the bunch".  I recently spoke to a Rabbi of a congregation
with a rather large Kiddush club about him stopping it, and he replied
that "You can't fight all the battles, and you have to pick which one
you want to stand up against".  This seemed like a cop out to me.

Barry Siegel   HR 1K-120   (908)615-2928   hrmsf!sieg  OR  <sieg@...>


From: <petersig@...> (Sigrid Peterson)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 93 16:31:35 -0500
Subject: Query about "son of G-D"

I inadvertently discarded the issue with someone's query on how the
Christians could ever have come up with the designation "son of G-d" to
apply to Jesus. I hope I'm answering the original question.

It is easier to explain the phrase "Son of Man" which Christians think
is an exalted, messianic name that Jesus applied to himself. They trace
it to apocalyptic passage in Daniel 8.17, or Ezekiel, primarily Chapts
20 and 28, but also passim. (here and there throughout the rest).  The
Hebrew is <h>bn-'dm</> `ben-adam' = `any human being,' or `any man.'
Aramaic has similar phrasing - bar-enosh, I think.

So Christians who begin to study literature and history of the Ancient
Near East worry a lot about what they begin to learn about the phrase
ben-Adam or bar-enosh.

The phrase `son of God' doesn't seem to appear in TaNaKh, but does
appear in the Assyrian literature. RaDaK has a censored passage on
Psalms 2:12, which Christians began to interpret as n$ku-bar = kiss the
Son. As it's a messianic passage, Rashi intereprets the words to mean
that. RaDaK has and interesting commentary on the phrase, which you can
find in English in Book of Psalms/Tehillim: Volume One. A New English
Translation, translation of text, rash, and commentaryuy by Rabbi AJ.

Sigrid Peterson  UPenn  <petersig@...>


From: Jack Reiner <jack@...>
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1993 14:34:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Weekly Parsha

>From: Joseph V. Kaszynski <KASZYNSKI.JOSEPH@...>
>       Does anyone know of a subscription list that would send weekly
>e-mails of the Parsha??? Does anyone on this list feel that they could
>make such a contribution???

Even though I am late getting though my backlog of mj's, and you may have 
already received this information, here is the list of weekly parasha's
that I receive:

hamaayan     -  Hamaayam/The Torah Spring - In my opinion, this is the best.
                Once a week, you receive an issue devoted to the current week's
                torah portion.  The articles do not get too deep, and this is a
                good way to learn what is in the torah if you do not have any
                torah background.

bytetorah    -  Similar to hamaayan, but short and sweet; I like reading 
                several different articles about parashat shavuat so that 
                I can learn more about it.

k-lchaim     -  Written by the Lubavitchers, this contains several short 
                sections, one of which is always devoted to the current week's 
                torah portion.  You also get articles on history of important 
                Jews, tales, and stories.  This is my favorite list.

weekly       -  Written by a Rabbi Newman, this one tends to be extensive.
                Once again, I like reading several different articles so 
                that I can learn more about the parasha.

To subscribe to any mail-list, send an email message to IP address:


with a blank subject line.  In the body of the email message, write exactly
one line as follows:

     subscribe listname yourfirstname yourlastname

For example:

     subscribe hamaayan Joseph Kaszynski

There are many other Jewish mail lists, all centered on a theme topic.  For
instance, there are lists for affiliation, geography (Austrailian Jews, 
Belgium Jews), politics, Jewish social organizations, and so forth.  If you 
are interested in a complete list of mail-lists, email me and I will try to
dig it up.

Shabbat Shalom!

Regards,                                 | To do justly,                     |
Jack Reiner                              | To love mercy,                    |
<jack@...>                       | And to walk humbly with thy G-D   |
#include <standard_disclaimers.h>        |                       Micah 6:8   |


End of Volume 11 Issue 16