Volume 11 Number 85
                       Produced: Sat Feb 19 21:29:33 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Moshe Goldberg]
         [Saul Djanogly]
Erev and Boker
         [Rabbi Freundel]
Frozen Challah
         [Aryeh Blaut]
Hasidic Accent
         [Percy Mett]
Makas Bechoros
         [Aryeh Blaut]
Mental Illness
         [Sam Saal]
Mormon Software
         [Sue Kahana]
Office Ethics
         [Michael Lipkin]
Ostriches (2)
         [Reuben Gellman , Joey Mosseri]
Ruling of Rav Solovietchik on Yichud and Adoption
         [Michael Broyde]
         [Gena Rotstein]


From: <vamosh@...> (Moshe Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 03:00:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Accents

> From: eisenbrg%<milcse@...> (Lon Eisenberg)
> Subject: Accents     < Volume 11 Number 84>
> How about in the grace after meals (birkat hamazon): the typical (incorrect)
> Ashkenazy pronunciation: "ve-a-KHAL-tah, ve-sa-VA-tah, u-ve-RAKH-tah"
> [and you have eaten, and you have been satisfied, and you have blessed]
> the correct pronunciation: "ve-a-khal-TAH, ve-sa-VA-tah, u-ve-RAKH-tah"
> [you shall eat and have been satisfied, and you shall bless]

No, according to the taamei hamikrah [musical notes/punctuation], the correct
pronunciation is:
      "ve-a-khal-TAH, ve-sa-VA-tah, u-ve-rakh-TAH"
The three words are only part of the sentence, and the accent is affected by
where phrases start and finish. So that the full quote is:
"ve-a-khal-TAH ve-sa-VA-tah <pause>, u-ve-rakh-TAH et
                          ha-shem e-lo-KE-cha <full stop>"
Since phrasing is important, it is not always straightforward to decide
exactly where the accent should be.


From: <saul@...> (Saul Djanogly)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 18:52:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Depression

I think it is legitimate to look to the Torah as a source of therapy but
obviously not the only source.  After all Chazal said 'If one has a
headache,let him learn Torah' although I'm sure this does not preclude
taking an Aspirin!  I also heard directly from someone who was feeling
depressed who went to the Lubavitcher Rebbe for advice. The Rebbe told
him to learn more. As it says in Tehillim 'The commands of Hashem make
the heart happy'.  We are commanded 'Serve Hashem joyously'.I suspect
that depression is a manifestation of the Evil Inclination.  On a deeper
level, depression may well be an inverted form of pride/self-
centredness. Rather than accept his lot in life,the individual feels
ENTITLED to more and becomes frustrated/angry/depressed when his
expectations are not realized. Perhaps then depression is a modern
illness, the dark side of our modern culture of entitlement and
hightened expectations. Perhaps until recently human beings were just
glad to be alive!  In contrast the true believer in Hashem blesses him
joyously for both the good and evil that befalls him/her whatever
his/her circumstances. (I only wish I could aspire to this level!)

Any thoughts appreciated,

Purim Sameach
saul djanogly


From: <dialectic@...> (Rabbi Freundel)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 18:51:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Erev and Boker

Your problem with Erev and Boker proves the point that yom may not mean day.
The erev and boker must be explained as well and perhaps this simply means
dusk of the first era and dawn of the second. Interestingly there may be a
response here to Rashbam's problem that the verse appears to suggest that the
day begins in the morning. If peshat deals with eras not days then peshat
need not be at odds with halachah


From: Aryeh Blaut <ny000592@...>
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 03:00:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Frozen Challah

>Along the same lines, is there a problem with making hamotzi
>on Shabbos with two loaves of chala, of which one is frozen?

A book called "The Radiance of Shabbos" by Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen 
(published by Art Scroll) on page 79 says:

"A fully baked challah which was then frozen may be used for lechem 
mishneh & need not be thawed out first."

There is a footnote which says that this was heard to have been said by 
Rav Moshe ZT"L.  The note continues to say that even if the bread became 
too hard to eat, it is still okay to use as lechem mishneh because it 
looks like one could eat it.

Aryeh Blaut

[This same source was submitted by Eitan Fiorino - <fiorino@...>


From: <P.Mett@...> (Percy Mett)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 18:51:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Hasidic Accent

Eli Turkel writes:

>pronunciation used by a large group is acceptable. Rav Zvi Pesach Frank
>objects strongly to the hasidic accent. In any case none of these claim

I find it hard to believe that Rav Frank said those words (do you have a

There is no such thing as a chasidic accent. If you think there is, go
around and listen to different groups of chasidim:

Lubavich, Karlin, Slonim use a Russian/Litvish pronunciation
Belz, Ger, Bobov  use a Polish/Galitsyaner pronunciation
Vizhnits, Rizhin, Chernobl use a Ukrainian pronunciation

Which one is it that Rav Frank ztl objected to?

Perets Mett


From: Aryeh Blaut <ny000592@...>
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 03:00:53 -0500
Subject: Makas Bechoros

Does anyone know why this maka (plague) is called "Bechoros" (the femine 
plural) and not "Bechorim" (with the male plural ending)?

Aryeh Blaut


From: Sam Saal <SSAAL@...>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 18:51:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Mental Illness

A few issues ago, Joseph Mosseri (<JMOSSERI@...>) requested sources on 
mental illness.  Many years ago I read the book "Judaism and Psychology, 
Halachic Perspectives" by Moshe Halevy Spero (Ktav, 1980).  I had lots of 
comments on it, judging from my notes in the margins.  You might want to 
check this book and its bibliography.

Sam Saal
Vayiphtach HaShem et Peah Ha'Atone


From: Sue Kahana <SUE%<HADASSAH@...>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 11:57 JST
Subject: Mormon Software

I have lately learned that both WordPerfect and Novell are products
of Mormons.  In this case, there obviously is less of a problem than with
geneological software where they are tracking Jewish families.  However,
the problem that I heard is that, at least the owners of WordPerfect,
tithe to their church.  This means that if I, as a customer, buy their
product, 10% of the price goes to a missionizing, possible a.z. church.

Does anyone have any ideas?



From: <msl@...> (Michael Lipkin)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 18:50:53 -0500
Subject: Office Ethics

I'd like to know if anyone knows about or has reference to sources on
Halachic parameters regarding office ethics. Specifically, answers to
questions such as:

- Are there global guidelines which can be applied to such things as personal
  use of the copy machine, telephone, pc, office supplies, the internet 
  (e.g. mail-jewish), etc.? 
- Does it matter if it's on one's own time or on company time? 
- Do "norms" of the working world or of one's particular office environment
  come into play?  
- Does it matter if the owner of the company is Jewish, Shomrei Mitzvot, a
  publicly held corporation? 

Michael S. Lipkin       Highland Park, N.J.       <msl@...>


From: Reuben Gellman  <rsg@...>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 18:51:22 -0500
Subject: Ostriches

Someone recently inquired about the kashrut of ostriches. Speaking
as (almost certainly) the only m-j'er who grew up on an ostrich farm
(in South Africa, since you asked), I can tell you that they are not.
The torah lists "bat ya'anah" in Vayikrah (Leviticus) chap 11 and in 
D'varim (Deutoronomy) chap 14 as a non-kosher bird. Admittedly, we don't
know for certain what the birds listed in those chapters are, but (1) bat
ya'anah is pretty clearly identified; (2) lack of identification is used
l'chumrah, not l'kulah, which means that birds which are unlisted, and
therefore kosher, are not presumed kosher in the absence of other evidence.

Reuven Gellman

From: <JMOSSERI@...> (Joey Mosseri)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 09:05:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Ostriches

Regarding Nadine Bonner's question on the kashrut of ostriches.

See Vayiqra 11:16 and Debarim 14:15 , there the  BAT HAYA'ANAH is mentioned
among the list of unkosher birds. It seems that most of the commentators
have translated this to be the ostrich. There is one opinion (that of Yehuda
Feliks Ph.D.) who says that the BAT HAYA'ANAH is the eagle owl. 
Here is his argument: Due to the similarity of the Hebrew names BAT YA'ANAH
and YA'EN  the former was identified, mistakenly, with the latter-the
ostrich. Thus Targoum Yonatan renders the Aramaic translation of BAT
YA'ANAH- - BAT NA'AMITA (ostriches). The Talmoud, though in one instance
tries to give a different meaning to the name (Houlin 64b), generally
assumes it to be ostrich (Mo'ed Qatan 26a). This identification, however,
cannot be accepted. The Bible refers to the BAT YA'ANAH as a bird that dwells
among the ruins: "VEHAYETAH NEVEH TANNIM HASSIR LIBNOT YA'ANAH" and it shall
be a habitation for the TANNIM  and a court for the BAT YA'ANAH (Isaiah
34:13). Yet the ostrich lives in the wide open desert. Morever, the
ostrich's voice is very rarely heard. The hooting of the BAT YA'ANAH  is
more frequent: "E'ESEH MISPED KATANNIM VE-EBEL KIBNOT YA'ANAH" I will make a
wailing like the TANNIM  and a mourning like the BAT YA'ANAH (Micah 1:8).

I must say it's a very good argument but traditionally the ostrich has
always been looked upon as a ritually unclean bird by Sefaradim and
Ashkenazim alike. I would tell you not to eat it or its eggs, but please
check with your regular halakhic authority first.


From: Michael Broyde <RELMB@...>
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 02:59:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Ruling of Rav Solovietchik on Yichud and Adoption

Rabbi Bechhoffer correctly asks if the ruling of Rabbi Solovietchik
concerning yichud was intended for general consumption or if it was
directed to a specific person.  This ruling of Rabbi Solovietchik was
quoted by Rabbi Melech Schachter in his article on adoption published in
volume 4 of the RJJ journal, page 96 and a number of years ago I asked
him about this possition of Rav Soloveitchik, and he stated that it was
for general application.


From: Gena Rotstein <JSF@...>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94  19:11:22 EST
Subject: Yeshiva

I was just recently at a confrence where there were a lot of students
from YU and Stern.  I am looking into attending a Yeshiva next year,
however, not to find a husband but to actually learn all that I can.  I
was informed that Stern was a place where girls leave with an MRS. If
you could please inform me of Yeshivas that have beginner level courses
that also coincide with university in North America I would appreciate
it.  I don't have a very strong Jewish background, and I want to go
where basics are taught and simple questions aren't frowned upon.  I
will be graduating next year with a BA in Jewish History (Middle East
and European), but should a good Yeshiva opportunity arise I will put
off graduation for a year.

Thank you,

Gena Rotstein


End of Volume 11 Issue 85