Volume 12 Number 18
                       Produced: Mon Mar 21  0:43:15 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Avi Feldblum]
Egg Matzah for Shaabat Erev Pesach
         [Ari Kurtz]
Fast of the First Born (2)
         [Mike Gerver, Stephen Phillips]
Hagadah Issue
         [Avi Bloch]
Oat Matzoh
         [Uri Meth]
Oil for Pesach
         [Yechiel Wachtel]
Passover Halacha
         [Seth Magot]
Pesach beginning Motz'ei Shabbat
         [Daniel Kelber]
Pita Bread on Shabbat Erev Pesach
         [Phillip S. Cheron]
Salt [m.j v12#16]
         [Rick Dinitz]
Shabbat Erev Pesach
         [Robert Gordon]
Time of Sedar
         [Daniel Schweber]


From: mljewish (Avi Feldblum)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 00:35:17 -0500
Subject: Administrivia

I would like to thank all those who have sent in to me messages of
Mazal. Please accept this general statement of thanks, as I do not know
if I will get a chance to respond to you all privately.

As the week of Sheva Brachot is finished, and now it is only cleaning
for pesach time, which I share with you all, I will try and get
mail-jewish back on track. As one can imagine, the backlog is pretty
sizable. I will try and put the Pesach related material out first, and
then work on all the rest. Expect a flurry of postings over the next
several days, and then of course a break for Yom Tov.

Avi Feldblum
mail-jewish Moderator


From: Ari Kurtz <s1553072@...>
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 18:56:35 -0500
Subject: Egg Matzah for Shaabat Erev Pesach

second hand from the Rosh Yeshiva of Birkat Moshe (Maale Adumin) . That
there is no problem whatsoever with matzah ashira and isn't considered
chumetz at all and advises to use matzah ashira in order to advoid all
the problems of haveingchumetz around .

                          Ari Kurtz


From: Mike Gerver <gerver@...>
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 2:15:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Fast of the First Born

>From Susan Slusky in v12n14:

>Are both members of a first-born set of twins obligated, or just one?

Uh-oh, I hope not! It seems so obvious to me that it never occurred to
me even to ask a shayla. After all, Yakov and Esav were twins, and it
is clear that (initially) only Esav had the status of first-born. But
I'll be waiting with baited breath (and alarm clock ready to set) to
see if anyone writes in with a different opinion.

Mike Gerver, <gerver@...>

From: Stephen Phillips <stephenp@...>
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 18:57:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Fast of the First Born

> From: <segs@...> (Susan Slusky)
> Who has to fast on the day before Pesach (two days before for this year)?
> Are the rules the same as for pidyon haben? Does a C-section birth count?
> Are both members of a first-born set of twins obligated, or just one? 
> Do any interpretations include first-born women or is it always clear 
> that only men are obligated?

 From my reading of the subject (mainly in the Sefer "Erev Pesach
Shechol Beshabbos UPurim Meshulosh" by Rav Tzvi Cohen) the rules are
different to a Pidyon Haben. The firstborn of EITHER parent have to
fast and the mode of delivery at birth does not make any difference.
There are opinions to the effect that firstborn daughters have to
fast (and therefore the mother would have to fast if the daughter is
not yet Bas Mitzvah), but these opinions do not seem to be widely

Stephen Phillips


From: <avi@...> (Avi Bloch)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 10:24:20 IST
Subject: Re: Hagadah Issue

I am sorry to sorry to say that I have only received 5 more contributions since
my last post, most of them answering one of the questions that I previously
raised. (Nobody else seems to have any difficulties with the Hagadah.)

I have a feeling that many of you out there have something to contribute but
FEEL that they have nothing new to say. I think that this is not true. If 
everyone in MJ-land who can, would contribute at least one piece of Hagadah
torah, I'm sure that most of the contributions would be new to most of the

So come on, let's see some contributions. They don't have to be long. Even a
short "vort" (Yiddush for word, kind of hard to translate) will do. Also you
don't have to concentrate on Maggid. There are other areas of the Hagadah that
can be addressed. Here are 2 questions regarding other areas to get you started:

- How did the paragraph "Shfoch Chamtcha" (Pour out your anger) get into the
  Hagadah? Why at this point? Why do we open the door? What is the connection
  between this paragraph and Eliyahu Hanavi (Elija the Prophet)?

- The song "Echad mi yodea" (Who knows one) contains for each number major
  elements in Judaism. However there are 2 that don't seem to fit. For 9 we
  have "9 months of pregnancy". That doesn't seem Jewish at all. For 11 we have
  "11 stars" which are usually explained as the 11 stars in Yoseph's dream. Why
  is that so important to be mention here?

Contributions will be accepted until Tuesday, 10th of Nissan (March 22) at the
beginning of the workday in Israel. I will have it out by the end of the day.

So let's see those contributions.

Kol tuv
Avi Bloch
Hagadah Issue Editor


From: <umeth@...> (Uri Meth)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 09:59:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Oat Matzoh

Gedalyah Berger quotes that according to some oppinions that oats are not
one of the five species of grain.  According to those who hold this,
what 5 grains constitute the five species?  As children we were all
taught that the five species are BROWS - barely, rye, oat, wheat, and

Uri Meth                (215) 674-0200 (voice)
SEMCOR, Inc.            (215) 443-0474 (fax)
65 West Street Road     <umeth@...>
Suite C-100
Warminster, PA 18974


From: Yechiel Wachtel <YWACHTEL@...>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 21:42:33 PST
Subject: Oil for Pesach

	Here in Jerusalem the "aida charaidis" will not give a pessach 
hechsher on Cotton seed oil due to fear of kitneyos.  Though Rav Landau,
Bnai Brak does.  This year my wife found Filbert Nut oil with a Belz/Shairis
hechsher, manufactured in Turkey. It is much clearer than walnut oil.


From: Seth Magot <MAGOT@...>
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 18:57:25 -0500
Subject: Passover Halacha

I remember last year one of the synagogues had a phamplet about 
the rules/regulations of Passover.  Any information about this 
publication would be appreciated.

Seth Magot


From: <XW0SDAK@...> (Daniel Kelber)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 00:12:00 -0500
Subject: Pesach beginning Motz'ei Shabbat

    I would appreciate someone going over how to prepare for Pesach when
it begins Motz'ei Shabbat. I.e. when to stop eating Hametz, when to
prepare food for the Seders, etc.

Kol Tuv, Daniel Kelber


From: <dt168@...> (Phillip S. Cheron)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 01:07:58 -0500
Subject: Pita Bread on Shabbat Erev Pesach

For those traditionalists who are uncomfortable with (or have a P'sak
against) using egg matzoh on Shabbos Morning during the hours when it is
still permissible to consume Chometz, but are equally uncomfortable with
the notion of the rug rats dragging crumbs around the lovely, clean,
Pesachdik house, why not just serve Pita bread in your garage, back
room, basement or wherever?  The Pita satisfies the requirement for
Lechem Mishneh, it's a whole bread (shlemah) and the crumbs will be

Chag Kosher v'Sameach.
Ephraim Cheron


From: tekbspa!<dinitz@...> (Rick Dinitz)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 18:57:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Salt [m.j v12#16]

Joshua Sharf writes:
> Joey Mosseri asks about iodized salt and Pesach.  Iodized salt has corn
> starch in it.  This is, of course, a kitniyot derivative and may not be
> eaten by Ashkenazim.  Regular salt, of course, is just NaCl.

 According to Rabbi E. Eidlitz, the problem is not cornstarch, but
that alcohol (from kitniyot) is used to prepare iodized salt.

 Chag kasher v'sameach,


From: Robert Gordon <U08383%<UICVM@...>
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 94 18:53:30 -0500
Subject: Shabbat Erev Pesach

I am confused about the proper procedure this year for making HaMotzi on
Shabbat, Erev Pesach.  I have heard that it is permissible to either (1)
daven early and make Hamotzi on regular Challah before the zman of biur,
or (2) the make Hamotzi at the usual time on egg matzah.  Now what is
the reason for not doing the latter?  One reason I heard is that there
is a question as to whether it is permissible to make Hamotzi on egg
matzah.  But as far as I know egg matzah is not made with fruit juice
these days, in which case it is just like challah as far as the bracha
is concerned.  Another possible reason I thought of is that egg matzah
is too much like ordinary matzah and therefore cannot be eaten erev
pesach.  A third possible reason is the possibility that egg matzah is
chometz.  Are any of these reasons in fact correct?  Are there poskim
who allow using egg matzah?
                           Robert Gordon


From: <dschweber@...> (Daniel Schweber)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 08:21:02 EDT
Subject: Time of Sedar

	Let me tell you right off that I am Conservative.  But I am
interested in what the orthodox view on starting the seder earlier than
what is said.  (My family is going to a friends house the first night,
and they don't have any young children, so we can start the first seder
after Shabbos) But the problem is Sunday night.  My family is hosting
the second seder, and there are young children.  We as a family feel
that they be present at the beginning of the seder and on many years
have started a little early.

	This year is not that bad because daylight savings time has not
started yet and starting at seven O'clock which means dinner begins
about 8:30-9:00.  (Actually I noticed the other day that daylight
savings time starts on eighth day Yom Tov) Are there any provisions
toward starting the seder early.

Daniel Schweber - Princeton NJ.


End of Volume 12 Issue 18