Volume 12 Number 20
                       Produced: Mon Mar 21  1:08:49 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Beer and Oil
         [Warren Burstein]
Grapemist Grape Juice
         [Justin M. Hornstein]
         [Mechael Kanovsky]
Holocaust and Yeziat Mitzraim
         [Saul Djanogly]
         [Robert A. Book]
Oat matzot
         [Gedalyah Berger]
Olive Oil for Pesach
         [Ruth Neal]
Pesach Oils
         [Robert A. Book]
Pesach Recipes for Chabadniks
         [Sandy Bodzin]
recipes Vol. 12 #11 Digest
         [Lorri Lewis]


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 10:34:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Beer and Oil

Josh Klein

>In the US of 20-30 years ago, sunflower seed or peanut oil were the Pesach
>oils of choice. In Israel, both such oils are labelled kosher for Pesach only
>for those who eat 'kitniyot'. Are kitniyot 'metameh'-- that is, if a factory
>makes soybean oil, and then presses some sunflower seeds on the same line,
>does the latter become 'kitniyot' by contact?

I suspect that while Josh and I both grew up with peanut oil in the
house, the mashgiach of the oil is of the opinion that we ought not to
be eating it.  (I wonder if the mashgiach is an Ashkenazi who doesn't
eat peanut oil, or a Sefaradi who has it in for us?  Just kidding
about the latter.)

I don't recall seeing sunflower oil when I was growing up.  Are
sunflower seeds definitely kitniot?  I heard that the reason that we
eat (or used to, at least) peanut oil is that there are two reasons in
might be OK, it might be the case that peanuts are not kitniot, and it
might also be the case that oil from kitniot is allowed.

How does safflower oil fit in?  Canola?  I think that's the same as
rapeseed (not surprisingly, it sells better under the name canola).

/|/-\/-\       The entire world		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very crowned hamantasch.
 |warren@      But the weeder
/ nysernet.org is concerned.


From: Justin M. Hornstein <jmh@...>
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 12:22:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Grapemist Grape Juice

I called the Star-K, telephone (410) 484 4110 (thanks to Barry Siegel
for the number) and inquired about the distributor of Grapemist, the
preservative/ sulfite-free grape juice.

The number of the distributor is (718) 692 3572; ask for Ilan, although
anyone there can probably help (very nice folks). I purchased some from
the NPGS Kosher store in Lakewood N.J.

Some bottles have a specific Star-K Kasher L'Pesach decal; I was told
that this was for emphasis and all of it is ok for Pesach, as it says
kasher l'arba kosot (in Hebrew) on the label.

					Chag kasher v'sameach

					Justin M. Hornstein


From: <KANOVSKY@...> (Mechael Kanovsky)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 10:16:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Hagaddah

regarding the hagadah shel pesach, if one is looking for questions then
look no farther than the Abarbenel. In his "peirush" for the hagadah he 
asks 100 questions and then goes on to answer them in his usual lengthy
and interesting way (by the way there is also a shortened version of the
Abarbenel on the hagadah).
	About eating romaine lettuce for maror, well it is true that 
the lettuce is not bitter but the stem in the middle is. Actualy the stem
gets even more bitter if it is let to grow. When that happens the leaves
open and fall off and the stem grows to a hight of app 1.5 feet and then
yellow flowers bloom. If one will eat that stem then you will see why
it is considered one of the five species of maror mentioned in the mishna.


From: <saul@...> (Saul Djanogly)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 94 08:53:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Holocaust and Yeziat Mitzraim

In Shemot Chap 13 verse 18 Rashi brings the Mechilta that 'a fifth of
the Jewish people left Egypt and four fifths died during the plague of
darkness'.  In fact there are 2 other opinions in the Mechilta that only
1 in 50,or 1 in 500 Jews survived!  To what extent were the survivors
traumatized by the loss of so many Jews who must have included many dear
and loved ones(altough those who died were Reshaim-wicked)?  The
Mechilta says the survivors buried the dead and praised Hashem that
their enemies (blinded by the darkness) did not see and rejoice at these
deaths!  Do any of the commentators discuss the above?

saul djanogly


From: <rbook@...> (Robert A. Book)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 09:03:17 -0500
Subject: Kitniyot

It seems like almost any discussion of a controversial Pesach issue
boils down (no pun intended) to whether or not something falls into
the category of kitniyot.  Many people have commented on how it seems
people have become more and more strict over recent years by
claissifying more and more things as kitniyot.  (The most extreme
examples I can think of are coffee and chocolate -- both of which are
widely available with Pesach hechshers!)

So, my question is: What is the definition of kitniyot?  Since this is
a difference between Ashkenazim and Sefardim, how did the Ashkenazim
come to have this custom?  And if it is "custom" (minhag?), and not,
strictly speaking, halacha d'rabonim (rabinnic law) or halacha
d'oraisa (Torah law), why is there a need to be more and more strict?
(I mean, we're told to "make a fence for the Torah," but not to make a
fence for customs.)

--Robert Book    <rbook@...>


From: Gedalyah Berger <gberger@...>
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 10:17:08 -0500
Subject: Oat matzot

I have received a number of queries/comments since my recent short 
posting about oat matzah.  I realize now that I was much too brief and 
should clarify.

Until very recently (i.e., the last decade or two), all commentators and 
poskim, as far as I know, agreed that oats is one of the 5 minim of 
grain.  Based on the botanical studies of Prof. Yehuda Feliks, who has 
written extensively on plants and animals in Tanach and Halachah, at least 
one well-respected posek here in the States feels that, lechumra only, 
oats should not be considered one of the minim.  I was also told so by a 
rebbe of mine in Israel.  (Again, only lechumra - I don't think anyone 
would permit, e.g., eating oatmeal on Pesach.)  The overwhelming 
majority, though, of poskim, as far as I know, have not adopted 
this position, and believe 100% that oats are indeed a min dagan.

I apologize for being so cryptic.

Chag kasher vesame'ach,

Gedalyah Berger
Yeshiva College / RIETS


From: <rln@...> (Ruth Neal)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 00:37:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Olive Oil for Pesach

Several people have stated recently that any olive oil from Italy or
Spain is Kosher L'Pesach without a hechsher.  

According to Rabbi Eidlitz of the Kosher Information Bureau in L.A.,
THIS IS NOT EXACTLY TRUE.  I quote from page 10 of his Passover Guide 5754/
   Olive Oil:  any olive oil from a Greek or Italian company WHICH IS
   VIRGIN OR EXTRA-VIRGIN [does not need certification; emphasis mine].
   If from Israel it needs good certification (due to laws of Shmita,
   Maaser, etc.)

He was asked this again specifically in the shiur I heard, and he stated
that unless it is virgin or extra-virgin, not only does it need a Pesach
hechsher but it needs one all year around, because of the extensive 
processing lesser grades undergo.  Specifically, he noted that "pure"
olive oil is not the same as virgin or extra-virgin, and =does= need
a hechsher.  

This points up again, I think, that although there is much interesting
and valuable information and discussion on mail-jewish, people should not
rely on m-j for actual halachic advice.

If anyone wants a copy of his Pesach Guide, there might still be time to
get a copy by writing him at Kosher Information Bureau, Emek Hebrew 
Academy, 12732 Chandler Blvd., North Hollywood, CA 91607, or calling
818-762-3197.  I don't know if he takes requests via e-mail, but his
addresses are PRODIGY: JFWS73A
or Compuserve:  <70233.2550@...>

Chag Pesach kasher v'sameach to all

Ruth Neal


From: <rbook@...> (Robert A. Book)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 09:03:13 -0500
Subject: Pesach Oils

Does anyone know about the status of Canola oil?

--Robert Book    <rbook@...>
  Rice University


From: duns/S=BODZIN-S/O=<DUN@...> (Sandy Bodzin)
Date: 11 Mar 94 18:39:38 GMT
Subject: Pesach Recipes for Chabadniks

In Mail.Jewish Volume 12 Number 11, Jessica Ross asked for recipes
suitable for Chabadniks on Pesach.  In "Spice and Spirit", a cookbook
published by Lubavitch women, the Lubavitch women mention another
publication of theirs named "The Spice and Spirit of Kosher - Passover
Cooking".  While I have not used this Pesach cookbook my wife and I are
very impressed with "Spice and Spirit" as both a cookbook and as a
general guide to Jewish living.

They can be reached at:

Lubavitch Women's Cookbook Publications
852 Eastern Parkway
Brooklyn, NY 11213

Hag Sameah,

(Please type your email address somewhere in your message as my
X400 connection loses any address information.)
Sandy Bodzin
Believe it or not my email address really is:


From: <lorrin@...> (Lorri Lewis)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 11:31:44 -0500
Subject: recipes Vol. 12 #11 Digest

In response to Jessica Ross regarding cooking for Pesach without gebrachs
(no wet matza product) the easiest thing is to plan menus of
fish/meat/poultry and vegetables.  Classic meat and potatoes meals work
well.  Lots of different vegetable combinations and methods of cooking can
add color and variety.

In the kugel type dished you will be limited to potatoe kugel (try sweet
potatoe kugel)  and the fritada.  A great Italian fritada has artichoke
hearts and tomatoes baked in the oven with eggs and cheese--even if a
recipe calls for matza ir matza meal it can be made without.

If you like to patchke  the Sephardim do a lot with stuffed vegetables. 
Hollow out onions, zucchini, mushrooms, potatoes and fill with a well
spiced ground meat mixture that can have finely chopped parts of the veges
you removed. 

 No need to go hungry .
Lorri Lewis
Palo Alto, California


End of Volume 12 Issue 20