Volume 12 Number 42
                       Produced: Thu Apr  7 22:43:12 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

American Programs in Israel
         [Aryeh Frimer                       ]
Egg Matzah and Chometz Nukshe
         [Jerrold Landau]
Ethical Issues
         [Warren Burstein]
Fiddler On The Roof, Part II
         [Dan Goldish]
Halacha and Drugs
         [Rabbi Freundel]
Jewish Library Software
         [Jeffrey A. Freedman]
Kashrut of beer
         [Yitzhak Teutsch]
         [Joel Goldberg]
Money in Ketubot
         [Raz Haramati]
Pesach contribution of Gedalyah Berger - 'devarim shebikhtav'
         [Eric Safern]
Putting Stones on Tomb Stones
         [Lon Eisenberg]
Rashi's descendants
         [Freda Birnbaum]
Substance Abuse and Jewish Law
         [Ben Berliant]
Wheat Oil
         [Warren Burstein]
         [Jeff Woolf]


From: Aryeh Frimer                        <F66235@...>
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 1994 10:35:19 -0400
Subject: American Programs in Israel

My personal hang-up is not "Israeli" vs non-Israeli institutions - but
Hebrew speaking vs non-Hebrew speaking institutions. The Yeshivot of
Telz and Slabodka which essentially produced most of the Gedolim of
the previous generation all spoke a FLUENT Hebrew. If you don't want
Zionism, go to Poniviz or Mir or Hevron in Jerusalem, but for the sake
of Torah - learn Hebrew! You can't be a ben-Torah without being fluent
in Hebrew (Ivris or Ivrit). Anyone who says otherwise is fooling
themselves and has closed the door on 2000 years of Responsa and
Halakhic literature. HKB"H did not communicate to Klal Yisrael in
English and I'll bet anyone that when Mashiach comes we'll all go back
to speaking Lashon Kodesh - beat the rush!


From: <LANDAU@...> (Jerrold Landau)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 94 09:26:38 EDT
Subject: Egg Matzah and Chometz Nukshe

Yechiel Pisem asks how egg matzah can become chometz nukshe if it is only
eaten on Shabbat.  As far as I understand Rabbi Eider's comments in his
books on hilchot pesach, the manufacturing process of egg matzah (i.e. the
mixing of matzah flour and fruit juice and/or eggs) can speed up the
leavening process.  The baking will stop this leavening process early, but
since the leavening process may have started and then been stopped early,
the egg matzahs can become chometz nukshe.  A mixture of flour and water
will generally not start the leaving process until 18 minutes hase elapsed,
but a mixture of four and other liquids can start this leavening process
early.   Therefore, it is not that the already baked egg matzahs may become
chometz nukshe, but that the baking process may result in the egg matzahs
becoming chometz nukshe.  This is how I interpret Rabbi Eider's comments.
Next time we have to worry about this is in the year 2001, I believe.


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 1994 09:53:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Ethical Issues

David Charlap writes:

>If someone is trying to kill you, you can kill him to defend yourself,
>but I don't think you can hire a third party to kill him for you.

I don't see why not.  Can't one hire a bodyguard?  If A is trying to
kill B, not only may B kill A in self defense, but so may a third party
(even if the third party's life is not in danger), in defense of B.
This all assumes that the only way to save B's life is to kill A, of
 |warren@      But the okra
/ nysernet.org is not all that worried.


From: Dan Goldish <GOLDISH@...>
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1994 13:42:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Fiddler On The Roof, Part II

The Boston Globe carried an AP article by Matthew Fordahl on March 27th
(pg 13) that was titled "Professor punished for citing Talmudic tale
sues school."  According to the article, United Church Seminary theology
professor Graydon Snyder used a story from the Talmud as an example to
illustrate a difference between Judaism and Christianity.

The alleged Talmudic story he cited involves a roofer who accidentally
falls off a roof onto a woman and "they accidentally have sex."  But
since it happened by "accident", Mr. Snyder claims the Talmud does not
consider the roofer to be at fault.  Mr. Snyder was disciplined by the
seminary on sexual harassment charges brought by one of his female
students who was offended by his teachings, and he has now filed a
counter suit against the school and the disciplinary panel seeking
unspecified damages.

I am curious if anybody has _ever_ seen this case in the Talmud and
could supply the reference?  The newspaper did not specify the origin of
the story, and subsequent follow-up articles in the Globe have not cited
any specific passage either.


From: <dialectic@...> (Rabbi Freundel)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 94 21:55:58 EDT
Subject: Halacha and Drugs

Rgarding the issue of drugs see Igros Moshe Yoreh Deah sect. 4 #35. As
expected the response is prohibitive. The reasons
1. harmful to bodily well-being
2. it harms the intellect
3. this will impair Torah learning, prayer and other mitzvot
4. it is addictive and therefor takes on aspects of the rebellious son
5. It leads to criminality
6. it generally causes pain to one's parents
7. it violates thou' shall be holy"
8. many other prohibitions
I guess there is Assur and there is really really ASSUR.
My own veiw is that beyond the drugs is the problem of the drug culture and
the sense that it claims that the human being is not good enough without
outside chemical additives. I find this to be a negation of God's marvelous
acts of creation and an inappropriate attitude for any spiritual person much
less a true Ben Torah


From: Jeffrey A. Freedman <jfreedmn@...>
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 1994 19:01:01 -0400
Subject: Jewish Library Software

I am the ad-hoc librarian for our Temple library. I inherited the job by
means of our remodeling the Temple and completely disassembling the
former library (about 1,000 volumes). Now that we are in our new library
location, I have taken it upon myself to catalog the books in total with
a VERY simple program called Q&A (maybe you've heard of it?) This is a
very cumbersome means of keeping track of check-ins and outs.

Are any of you aware of any JEWISH-oriented computer card/library catalog
and maintanance (sic) programs? I understand Davka used to market a
program which is no longer available. We are looking for basic cataloging,
card printing, spine labelling and check-in/out databse.

Any suggestions with addresses and/or phone numbers appreciated.

Todah oolahitraot -
Jeff Freedman


From: Yitzhak Teutsch <TEUTSCH@...>
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1994 14:57:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Kashrut of beer

Since everybody else on this list has already put in their two cents on
the subject of the kashrut of beer :-), I might as well pass on
something I found about three years ago while writing an article on the
international legal aspects of German unification.  In the New York
Times of Mar. 12, 1991, a certain Jurgen Funk, chief executive officer
of a Leipzig brewery dating to 1278, is quoted as saying: 'They
convinced us that to be competitive, we had to brew under the German
beer purity law.  ...  Before unity we used to put cattle bile in our
beer to give it the bitter flavor of hops, which we couldn't always
get.'  Cheers!

                             Yitzhak Teutsch 
                        Harvard Law School Library
                          Cambridge, Mass.  USA


From: <goldberg@...> (Joel Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 09:44:34 -0400
Subject: Michlalah

  <sjg@...> (Susannah Greenberg) wrote:

> I'd like to take issue with Aryeh Frimer's categorization of Michlalah
> as a-zionist. I have first hand experience since I spent two years
> there 85-87.  In the afternoon [of Yom hazikaron], students were
> encouraged to go to Har Herzl
   My sister-in-law attended the overseas program of Michlala last academic
   year. The students were forbidden to go to Har Herzl on Yom Hazikaron.


From: <rhara@...> (Raz Haramati)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 11:12:43 +0500
Subject: Money in Ketubot

In response to the bewildered queries regarding mentioning new
shekalim, old shekalim etc within the framework of the Ketubah, I think
a bit of clarification is in order.  It is my understanding that in the
US the minhag is to write only an amount in zekukim kesef in the
ketubah a sum that in most cases is 200.  In Israel, an actual amount
of currency is entered as well (in Dollars, Shekalim, Shekalim linked
to the Dollar exchange rate etc.).  Thus, I can imagine a situation
where if only Shekalim were mentioned that clarification is in order
as to whether they are New Shekalim or Old Shekalim.


From: <esafern@...> (Eric Safern)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 15:39:28 -0500
Subject: Pesach contribution of Gedalyah Berger - 'devarim shebikhtav'

Gedalyah Berger writes in the Hagaddah issue that Chazal started the
derashot with 'arami oved avi' because this was required for vidduy
bikkurim, therefore was explicitly required by the Torah to be said on
this night, and was therefore permitted despite the problem of 'davar

What I don't understand is, how does *starting* this way then permit the
reading of *other* pesukim which are unrelated to vidduy bikurim?

 BTW, Gedalyah, I believe I went to school with your sister Miriam.
Chag Sameach!


From: eisenbrg%<milcse@...> (Lon Eisenberg)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 94 11:14:00 IDT
Subject: Putting Stones on Tomb Stones

I'm looking for information about this custom.  Retrieving the index didn't
help me.  Can you?


From: Freda Birnbaum <FBBIRNBA@...>
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 10:52:51 -0500
Subject: Rashi's descendants

Re the very interesting speculations re Rashi's descendants, in V12N37
and previously, allow me to recall Rabbi Riskin's comment on yichus:
the real question about yichus, he said, is, does it START with you,
or END with you? [Actually, I strongly suspect that R. Riskin picked
that comment up from my father. Mod.]

Freda Birnbaum, <fbbirnbaum@...>,
spouse of a Rashi descendant


From: Ben Berliant <C14BZB@...>
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 14:23:26 -0500
Subject: Substance Abuse and Jewish Law

In discussing Substance abuse, <david@...> (David Charlap)

>2) Note that Jewish law only prohibits the use of such substances.  I
>   don't think it says anything about posession or sale.  But I
>   suspect that many rabbis would prohibit that, since possession and
>   sale of drugs serves no purpose other than prviding a medium for
>   consumption.

	Once you assume that the use of a substance is prohibited
(because it is harmful), then sale and distribution becomes prohibited
because of "lifnei eveir" (not putting a stumbling block in front of the
				BenZion Berliant


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 08:31:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Wheat Oil

>Danny Skaist asks why not use wheat oil for Pesach. In theory one
>could, however, each kernel of grain would have to be checked to see
>if it had become moist and fermented, i.e., became chometz, which is
>impossible unless the grain is watched from the harvest (when dealing
>with large volumes).

Shouldn't the same standards be applied to oil and flour?  One who
only eats matza from flour that was watched from the harvest would
have to be concerned about the above.  Isn't the standard matza only
guarded after it's ground into flour?  By that standard, wheat oil
could be made from the same wheat that matza is made of, although we
would want to have it done under supervision.

 |warren@      But the cabbie
/ nysernet.org is worried.


From: Jeff Woolf <F12043@...>
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 13:53:06 -0500
Subject: Zionism

I'm somewhat wary of falling into a 'What is Zionism?' debate, but I do
want to back up Aryeh Frimer's assertions about Michlalah and other such
schools. As Ms Greenberg writes they do teach the women who study there
about Eretz Yisrarel and inculcate Ahavat HaAretz. However, that does
not make them Zionists (though in this stress on Eretz Yisrael they are
exceptional vis a vis other places). Zionism perforce requires an
assertive, positive view of Medinat Yisrael as a value and as a gift
from God (irrespective of messianic overtones). It is disrespectful
IMHO to reduce it to Hallel w or w/o a blessing.

                                                           Jeffre Woolf


End of Volume 12 Issue 42