Volume 12 Number 46
                       Produced: Mon Apr 11 18:26:36 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Accidental Rape by Falling Roofer (3)
         [Yitzchok Adlerstein, Irwin H. Haut, Dan Goldish]
Hallel on Yom Haatzmaut on Shabbos (3)
         [R. Shaya Karlinsky, Michael B Freund , Rafael Salasnik]
Putting Stones on Tomb Stones
         [Daniel P. Faigin]
Stones on the Headstone
         [Jeffrey A. Freedman]
Yom Hazikaron texts
         [Aleeza Esther Berger]


From: Yitzchok Adlerstein <ny000594@...>
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 94 23:55:40 -0800
Subject: Accidental Rape by Falling Roofer

>The Boston Globe carried an AP article by Matthew Fordahl on March
>27th (pg 13) that was titled "Professor punished for citing
>Talmudic tale sues school."  According to the article, United
>Church Seminary theology professor Graydon Snyder used a story from
>the Talmud as an example to illustrate a difference between Judaism
>and Christianity.

>The alleged Talmudic story he cited involves a roofer who
>accidentally falls off a roof onto a woman and "they accidentally
>have sex."  But since it happened by "accident", Mr. Snyder claims
>the Talmud does not consider the roofer to be at fault.  Mr. Snyder
>was disciplined by the seminary on sexual harassment charges
>brought by one of his female students who was offended by his
>teachings, and he has now filed a counter suit against the school
>and the disciplinary panel seeking unspecified damages.

>I am curious if anybody has _ever_ seen this case in the Talmud and
>could supply the reference? 

The professor is in bigger trouble than he thinks!  It would seem that 
he misquoted Bava Kama 27A.
[The source was also identified by: <barbery@...> (Yacov Barber)

  The gemara most definitely does consider 
the fellow at fault, holding him liable for all damages normally 
actionable in any PI (personal injury) case (i.e. damage, pain, medical, 
unemployment) other than "embarrassment," since there was no intention to 
embarrass.  This follows the usual dictum of the gemara that "Adam muad 
l'olam" - man is responsible for all direct damage he himself (rather than 
his property) inflicts, even if accidentally.

The female student had little to complain about.  The passage actually 
shows that rape law was far more favorable to women in Talmudic times 
than in contemporary America.  When was the last time you heard of some 
victim successfully suing the perpetrator for injury and damages?

Yitzchok Adlerstein
Yeshiva of LA

From: Irwin H. Haut <0005446733@...>
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 18:06 EST
Subject: Accidental Rape by Falling Roofer

here it is Erev Shabat, and i have a lot to do, but i must respond to this
matter, since I believe it will show how things can get garbled in
transmission. I believe the reference is to Bava Kamma 27a and a roofer is
not mentioned. Rather, on issues of causation, Rabba (some ms. Rava)
presents a hypothetical, among others (see my article on causation in Jewish
Law in 3 National Jewish Law Review) concerning one who fell from a roof and
struck a woman in a manner constituing sexual relations. 
irwin h. haut

From: Dan Goldish <GOLDISH@...>
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 1994 13:06:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Accidental Rape by Falling Roofer

Mr. David Zharnest <davidz@...> sent me the following
reference and has given r'shus to share it with the rest of MJ:

it's in bava kamma 27a.
except the gemarra says that he must pay all damages except "boshes" 
(embarrasment) which one is only liable for if he had intent to at least
cause damage. When one falls off of a roof there is no such intent.
As far as "Tza'ar, Nezek, Sheves, and Ripui" (pain, damage, loss of work, 
and doctor bills) one is required to pay even without intent to cause damage
as long as one was at fault. When you fall off the roof, you are at fault.
The gemarra says that if the one that he had relations with with was his
"yavama" (dead brother's wife) , it does not count to yibum because you need
specific intent to have relations (with someone) 
 when you perform the act of yibum.
When one falls off a roof and ends up having relations with someone, there 
is no such intent.


From: R. Shaya Karlinsky <msbillk@...>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 10:03:57 +0300 (WET)
Subject: Hallel on Yom Haatzmaut on Shabbos

In MJ 12/44, Lon Eisenberg writes:

          We commemorate Independence Day on 5 Iyar; however, this
      year the observance is moved to 3 Iyar (5 Iyar is Shabbath).
      Which is the correct day to say Hallel (IMHO, we should say
      it on Shabbath, not on Thursday)?

     In 1969, when I was in Kerem B'Yavneh, Yom Yerushalayim (28th of
Iyar) came out on Friday and the public celebrations were moved to
Thursday.  But I remember very clearly that Hallel was said on Friday, as
it was in Merkaz HaRav.  In 1971, the 5th of Iyar came out on Friday and
Yom HaAtzmaut was celebrated, according to the Knesset decision from the
beginning of the State, on Thursday.  I am pretty sure that Hallel then
was also said on Friday, the 5th of Iyar, both in Kerem B'Yavneh and in
Merkaz Harav.  In later years, Merkaz definitely said Hallel whenever the
official Knesset day of Yom HaAtzmaut fell. (3 Iyar when 5 Iyar is on
Shabbos, 4 Iyar when it is on Friday.)
     IMHO, a clear analysis of the purely Halachic arguments (divorced
from the emotional or sociological ones) for saying _Hallel_ on Yom
HaAtzmaut (as opposed to some other means of religious observance and
recognition of the day) should support Lon's sense that the correct day
is 5 Iyar. While there is still some discussion about it in the Religious
Zionist Torah literature, in practice I believe that most everywhere
(that says Hallel) says it on the "official" Yom HaAtzmaut (3 Iyar this
year) rather on the 5th of Iyar.  Rabbi Shlomo Goren seems to have
changed his mind in his writings on the subject, arguing for 5 Iyar.  (I
haven't seen the sources inside, but references are "Torat HaShabbat
V'HaMoed" vs "Shana B'Shana 5732".) But the Halachic arguments made for
_saying Hallel_ on Yom HaAtzmanut seem to require attaching significance
to the day of the 5th of Iyar.  While secular celebrations need to be
moved to Thursday to avoid desecrating Shabbat, the recital of Hallel in
davening should have no bearing on that, much like we (in Jerusalem) read
the Megilla on Friday while reciting Al Hanisim on Shabbat.  Moving
Hallel to 3 Iyar seems to undermine the compelling nature of any Halachic
arguments that Hallel is Halchically correct on Yom HaAtzmaut.
     One historical note, which has Halachic bearing.  Until Rabbi Goren
became Chief Rabbi, the ruling of the Chief Rabbinate was to say Hallel
WITHOUT a bracha, and that was how most groups (who said Hallel) behaved,
with the noteable exception of the Kibbutz HaDati movement.  Mercaz HaRav
definitely said Hallel without a bracha on Yom HaAtzmaut (as opposed to
Yom Yerushalayim), as did Kerem B'Yavneh. Rabbi Goren's long held opinion
was that the Hallel should be WITH a bracha (his Sefardi counterpart at
the time, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, ruled that it should be said without a
Bracha...) and Merkaz HaRav changed soon after Rabbi Goren became Chief
Rabbi.  But I believe Kerem B'Yavneh continued to say Hallel without a
bracha.  (I am trying to find out how they behaved in recent years, but
with Rav Goldvicht no longer there it is likely that they will follow
Merkaz Harav.)
     Some people think the behaviour of the present government adds a new
wrinkle to the whole question of the proper Halachic response to Yom
HaAtzmaut.  A lot probably depends on the arguments used to reach ones
Halachic conclusion.

Shaya Karlinsky <msbillk@...>
Darche Noam/ Shapell's
PO Box 35209                  Jerusalem, ISRAEL
tel: 9722-511178              fax: 9722-520801

From: Michael B Freund  <MBF@...>
Date: 8 Apr 94 10:56:05 EST5EDT
Subject: Re: Hallel on Yom Haatzmaut on Shabbos

Regarding when to say Hallel because Yom Haatzmaut falls on Shabbos
this year, there is an article by Rabbi Yisrael Rozen in the parsha
sheet "Shabbat B'Shabbato" this week (Parshat Shemini) which
addresses the issue. The parsha sheet can be obtained over e-mail in
English - I think the address is:
<shabbat-zomet@...>  but I am not certain about

[Other submitters also referencing the above article are:

<F5E017@...> (Nachum Chernofsky)
Ezra Rosenfeld <zomet@...>


The article cites a piece by Rabbi Yaakov Ariel in the journal
Techumin, which argues that the rabbis have the power to declare a
"Yom Hilufi" (an alternative date in this case) for the saying of
Hallel because it falls on Shabbos.  Rav Ariel takes issue with Rav
Shlomo Goren, who says that one should say Hallel even when Yom
Haatzmaut falls on Shabbos. Rav Ariel argues that the purpose of
pushing Yom Haatzmaut to Thursday is to prevent desecration of
Shabbos. The Knesset itself has a law stating that if Yom Haatzmaut
falls on Shabbos or on Friday, it should be pushed off to Thursday.
If the Knesset goes to such lengths to protect the sanctity of
Shabbos - should we do any less? conludes the article.

Have a Chag Sameach...
Michael Freund

From: <Rafi@...> (Rafael Salasnik)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 94 00:45:26 GMT
Subject: Hallel on Yom Haatzmaut on Shabbos

In v12 44 Lon Eisenberg asks when is the proper time to celebrate Yom
Ha'atsmaut (Israel Independance Day) when it occurs on Friday or
Shabbat. The Rabanut in Israel at the beginning of the State, concerned
that independance day activities occuring on Friday or Shabbat would
lead to Chilul Shabbat (desecration of the Sabbath), arranged with the
government, that when Yom Ha'atsmaut falls on either of those days all
celebrations should be brought forward to the previous Thursday. This
includes the religious celebrations (special Tefilla, Hallel etc.) are
held on that day presumably so as to give a religious aspect to the day
and not to cause a separation between the Dati (religious) and non-Dati
communities. In my experience it certainly makes it easier for the Dati
community to be able to hold tefillot/celebrations on a weekday.

I don't know the reason why it is brought forward rather than postponed
till after Shabbat. I would suggest two possible reasons. Firstly by
bringing it forward Yom Ha'atsmaut can only ever be one or two days
different; whilst postponing it would lead to it being two or three days
later (because of the need to move Yom Ha'Zikaron [the memorial day for
those who died in the creation of and continued survival of the state]
to fall on the eve of Yom Ha'atsmaut.  A second suggestion is that maybe
it was an attempt to have it closer to Nissan, when we don't say
tachanun and it is not a mourning period of the sefirah according to
certain minhagim.

As to the question of when to say Hallel, those who say it do so on the
3rd this year. Although there may be a case to say it both on the 3rd
and on the 5th.  Similarly maybe one should omit Tsidkoskoh Tsedek at
Shabbat Mincha ?

By the way the first occassion after 1948 when Yom Ha'atsmaut needed to
be moved was 1950, when it would have been on a Shabbat.

Interestingly enough no such change of date occurs for Yom Yerushalayim
which although it cannot fall on Shabbat can fall on a Friday. The
reason I believe for this is that a) it is not a national holiday like
Yom Ha'atsmaut and b) the only group that really celebrate it is the
Dati-Tzioni (Religious Zionist) community rather than the wider public,
accordingly there isn't the fear of Chilul Shabbat.


From: <faigin@...> (Daniel P. Faigin)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 12:00:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Putting Stones on Tomb Stones

On Sun, 3 Apr 94 11:14:00 IDT, eisenbrg%<milcse@...> (Lon
Eisenberg) said:

> I'm looking for information about this custom.  Retrieving the index didn't
> help me.  Can you?

The following information with respect to this subject is in the
soc.culture.jewish FAQ:

Subject: 11.23. I've heard about a custom of putting stones on the grave. Do
                you know where this custom originated?

Originally, there were no engraved tombstones like we have today; instead,
visitors to the gravesite would each put a stone on the grave.  Over the
years, a mound of stones would accumulate, memorializing the deceased through
the hands of his/her loved ones.

Although Jews now follow the common practice of putting up tombstones
(generally unveiled a year following the actual funeral and burial), many
people still hold to the earlier custom of a more personal monument.



From: Jeffrey A. Freedman <jfreedmn@...>
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 14:25:33 -0400
Subject: Stones on the Headstone

Follow up to Lon Eisenberg's request for authority on the stone issue.
I was particular moved to seek the save information following the very
touching ending of Schindler's List. I know that for years, whenever we
would go to the cemetary, my family would put a blade of grass or a rock
on our reletive's headstones. My grandsmother said it was to tell the
departed that we were there to visit.

The same question came up a couple of weeks ago at our Temple's Board
Meeting.  Our Rabbi indicated there was authority on the subject in a
book entitled "Kol Bo Avelut" with several articles (I believe in
Hebrew) written by a Rabbi Greenwall of Cleveland. The gist of the
authority concurs with my grandmother's explanation, however, if you are
interested in further amplification, suggest you read Kol Bo.

Shalom -

Jeff Freedman (<jfreedmn@...>)  Ironic platform, huh!
Tacoma, Washington


From: Aleeza Esther Berger <aeb21@...>
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 22:39:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Yom Hazikaron texts 

Someone asked a while back about appropriate texts to recite.  I have a 
booklet from "chever ha-moetset ha-datit" (I'm not sure if that's the
Israeli rabbinate or what).  They have an azkara (remembrance prayer) for
the Shabbat before Yom Hazikaron (Remembrance Day, for fallen Israeli
soldiers); too late for that.  Also they have some texts for shacharit
(morning prayers) on Yom Hazikaron; I'm not sure about saying these at
an evening combined Yom Hazikaron-Yom ha'atzmaut (Independence Day)
event.  Anyway, these are some excerpts from psalms to be recited (some
responsively, some with the ark open), a yizkor prayer, and a special
kaddish recited by everyone in unison.  Whoever was  interested in this,
if you haven't found anything yet, I could fax it to you.

Aliza Berger


End of Volume 12 Issue 46