Volume 13 Number 70
                       Produced: Mon Jun 20 18:48:01 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Baby Toys (2)
         [David Charlap, Susan Sterngold]
         [Malcolm Isaacs]
Child of Niddah
         [Susan Sterngold]
Israeli customs
         [Stephen Phillips]
Israeli Customs
         [Sam Gamoran]
Nusach Chabad
         [Danny Skaist]
P'gam of Ben-Nidda
         [Danny Skaist]
Source for "Big Three" ???
         [Louis Rayman]
Temple Sisterhood Activities
         [Allie Berman]
What do "the big three" determine
         [Warren Burstein]
Yerushalmi customs
         [Percy Mett]


From: <david@...> (David Charlap)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 21:09:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Baby Toys

mljewish (Avi Feldblum) writes:
>... if they disapprove of or any toy (and book?)...

Regarding books, I know that they are very particular.  They will not
allow themselves or their children to read books that were not written
by a frum author, no matter what the content is.

From: Susan Sterngold <ss117@...>
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 23:38:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Baby Toys

thanks to all w\for your help with the baby toy dilemma. But I have a 
question-when an animal is not kosher, does that apply to more areas than 
eating it? Does it mean that you should not have a non kosher animal in 
your life in any capacity? 


From: <M.Isaacs@...> (Malcolm Isaacs)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 04:56:53 -0400
Subject: Ben-Niddah

I recall a gemara (Shabbat ?) where R. Akiva sees a man without a head
covering. R. Akiva declared that this man was a ben-niddah, and this was
found to be true on investigation.  Can anyone supply a reference?


From: Susan Sterngold <ss117@...>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 16:06:46 -0400
Subject: Child of Niddah

Ah-I just learned something. I always thought "niddah" meant a womanm who 
was menstruating, but are you saying that "niddah" means anyone who 
hasn't gone to a mikveh? Where would taking a shower fall in the 
cleanliness continuum, if swimming pools are equivalent to a mikveh in 
terms of a baaltshuvah? I find it hard to believe that a child would be 
punished for the lack of observance of his(her) parents by not being 
marriageable to certain people. Is this in keeping with the spiritual 
meaning of Judaism?


From: Stephen Phillips <stephenp@...>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 06:54:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Israeli customs

> From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
> 4.  In Jerusalem Tachanun is said even without a sefer Torah and without 
>     a regular shul.

I presume you mean that one falls on one's face during Tachanun even
without there being a Sefer Torah. Tachanun is said in any event,
even in Chutz Lo'Oretz.

> 6.  During Birkhat Kohanim the congregation does not say any prayers.

There are those who say that the prayers printed in the Siddurim as
responses to each work of Birchas Kohanim should not be said (see
the notes in the Art Scroll Siddur and Machzorim).

> 12. Burial procedures are very different (e.g. no coffin).

This has more to do with the fact that laws in countries in Chutz
Lo'Oretz require a coffin to be used. As a compromise, we try
wherever possible to drill holes in the bottom of the coffin.

>     The general rule is that follows the congregation for all public
> prayers and ones private custom for private prayers. Exactly what is
> public and private is subject to debate among Acharonim. For example,
> when I visit the US I do not say baruch hashem le-olam before the
> shemoneh esreh of maariv. When I am chazzan I try aand wait for others
> to say it and go straight into Kaddish. I know of others that object to
> this.  I know of an israeli who was in the US for a sabbatical and was
> told not to say "shecheyanu" at his sons brit milah.

If you are the chazzan then I think that you should say the same
prayers and in the same Nusach as the Kehillah (I believe Reb Moshe
z'ztl has a Teshuvah on this point).

One other Minhag Yerushalayim that I came across (I believe it
derived from the Talmidim of the Vilna Gaon) is that the Chanukah
lights are lit before sunset (even on a weekday).

Stephen Phillips

From: gamoran%<milcse@...> (Sam Gamoran)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 01:25:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Israeli Customs

In v13 #55 Eli Turkel lists 17 differences between Israeli and Diaspora
customs.  A few comments:

> 12. Burial procedures are very different (e.g. no coffin).
The no coffin is an economic/cultural custom not mandated by halacha
but rather as a cost-cutting measure.  Military funerals and mangled
accident victims (lo aleinu chas v'shalom) often do use coffins.
Other burial procedures do vary widely from place to place e.g. funerals at
night in J-m because of the old prohibition to remove the deceased ASAP.

>15. No kiddushes in shul (not in the shuls I go to).
Again I think this is a cultural/cost issue.  In our shul we have a kiddush
for Bar Mitzvah, Aufruf, etc. but there was almost no interest in
establishing a weekly social kiddush.


From: DANNY%<ILNCRD@...> (Danny Skaist)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 09:29:07 -0400
Subject: Nusach Chabad

>Meir Lehrer
>Both say that they have the true Nusach Ha'ri, but as the Ari Z"L
>was in Baghdad before coming to Eretz Yisrael, and not in Russia... draw
>your own conclusions as to who has more first hand knowledge.

I have never heard Chabad claim to have the true Nusach Ha'ri.  In fact
it is claimed that the First Rebbi collected a large number of siddurim
and composed the Nusach-Chabad, which, as it says on the siddur itself
is "Al pi" Nusach Ha'ri z"l, and not as some Adot Hamizrach siddurim say
"Siddur Nusach Ha'ari".



From: DANNY%<ILNCRD@...> (Danny Skaist)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 09:29:14 -0400
Subject: P'gam of Ben-Nidda

>Yaakov Menken
>He said that Reb Moshe was asked about this p'gam, and said that if we
>see a woman who has exemplary middos and Yiras Shamayim (personal
>character and fear of heaven), that she must not be pagum!  How can this

The "P'gam"/"pagum" is definitely involved with middos.  The gemorra
(I'm gonna guess it's in Yevamos) tells a story of three tanaim in an
inn, after observing the waiter's middos, one said "he's a ben-nidda"
one said "he's a mamzer", and Rebbi Akiva (?) said "he's a mamzer,
ben-nidda". Checking with the mother proved Rabbi Akiva right.  There
also other gemorras with the same general thrust

Rav Berniker, (now Rosh Yeshiva of Netzach Yisroel), learned that the
p'gam of a child born of a forbidden sexual union is phychological (and
not metaphysical) and comes from being raised in an environment where
the child's very existance is a constant reminder of a sin, and the
cause of parental guilt feelings.

Using his pshat in the gemorra... Since the parents of "Ba'ale Tshuvah"
are "tinokot shenishb'u" [raised without benefit of religous training],
and since parental recognition of the "sin" as a sin is a necessary
ingredient in creating the guilt which creates the "p'gam", it seems
obvious that todays "Ba'ale Tshuvah" can never be subject to this p'gam.



From: ccorp!mbr21!<lrayman@...> (Louis Rayman)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 12:15:46 -0400
Subject: Source for "Big Three" ???

I do not wish to enter the debate about the (IMHO, im)proper use of the
"Big Three" (Shabbat, Kashrut, and Taharat Hamishpacha) in determining
the "frumkeit" of others.  But I think I might have a source for it:

The Mishna at the end of Bameh Madlikin (Shabbat chap 2) states:

For 3 reasons to women die at the time of childbirth: because they are
not careful about
   Niddah (connection is obvious),
   Chalah (setting aside the portion of bread due to a chohen, and, by
extension implied at the end of the mishna, all trumot and ma'aserot
are included, all this clearly related to keeping a kosher home),
   and Hadlakat Haner (lighting Shabbat Candles).

As to how this warning to women to be careful about these 3 mitzvot
became a barometer for measuring furmkeit on others, I have no idea.

p.s. how can one tell that a family is keeping Taharat Hamishpacha,
anyway?  (Aside from "well, they seem like frum people, they go to shul
on shabbos, shop at the kosher butcher" etc).  Do we make the women sign
in at the mikva and post the list in shul?

Louis Rayman - Mercenary Programmer


From: <MTWX48C@...> (Allie Berman)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 21:34:01 -0400
Subject: Temple Sisterhood Activities

I have just been elected to the board of the Sisterhood of Temple Hillel,
North Woodmere, New York and have been placed in charge of developing a
series of activities for the Sisterhood meetings.  This would include
locating and arranging for guest speakers, educational activities as well
as trips in the New York area as well as the regional area.

If any of you have any ideas or suggestions they will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

Allie Berman


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 10:24:17 GMT
Subject: Re: What do "the big three" determine

I can see my friends and neighbors observe (or not) Shabbat and
Kashrut.  I don't have any way of knowing about what they do
concerning Taharat Hamishpacha.  It might be reasonable to assume that
those who observe the first two also observe the third, but that could
be said about any other mitzvah as well.  So why mention the third?

/|/-\/-\          If two half-slave-half-free people witness an ox
 |__/__/_/        owned in partnership by a Jew and non-Jew gore a Coi
 |warren@         bein hashmashot, in which state are the survivors
/ nysernet.org    buried?


From: <P.Mett@...> (Percy Mett)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 13:54:40 -0400
Subject: Yerushalmi customs

<turkel@...> (Eli Turkel) writes:
ET>      Israeli customs come from the early sefard (i.e. from arab
ET> counties) population that influenced the later ashknezai immigration. It
ET> is also influenced by the students of the Vilna Gaon (perushim) and also
ET> early chassidic immigrations..
ET> 6.  During Birkhat Kohanim the congregation does not say any prayers.
ET> 12. Burial procedures are very different (e.g. no coffin).

6) The prayers said during birkhath kohanim relate to the amelioration of
dreams. If you have not had a dream you don't need to say it. In chuts
loorets the ashkenazi minhag is that birkhath kohanim takes place only
occasionally (on yomtov). Since the gemoro in b'rokhoth describes a person
who has no dream for seven successive nights as "ro"  (bad) it is assumed
that by the time yom tov arrives you have had a dream. By extension the
tfila is also said on the second day of yom tov. 

In places where dukhenen takes place every day there is no requirement to
say the t'filo (but there is a clear ruling in shulkhan orukh to say it
when the need arises).

BTW most chassidishe communities in Congress Poland omitted these tfiloth

7) Burial without a coffin was standard practice in Eastern Europe.
Likewise saying kaddish at the graveside and making the shuroh (line of
m'nakhamim) outside.

Perets Mett


End of Volume 13 Issue 70