Volume 13 Number 71
                       Produced: Tue Jun 21  7:57:33 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Ben Niddah and Mamzer
         [Eli Turkel]
Big Three
         [Aaron Peromsik]
Chalav Yisrael
         [Gerald Sacks]
Cholov Yisroel: Same Cows
         [Pinchus Laufer]
Gedolim Ratings
         [Ezra Rosenfeld]
Halacha/Mishna Yomis
         [Yosef Branse]
Joseph and bitachon
         [Zev Kesselman]
Kesuboh Writing Program
         [Stephen Phillips]
Machlokes re Fact in Talmud
         [Sam Juni]
Paintings and Photographs
         [David Sherman]
Post mortem use of frozen semen
         [Joel B. Wolowelsky]
Rabbi Schwab and the missing 165 years
         [Eli Turkel]
Religious Moral Dilemma
         [A. M. Goldstein]
Where have those 165 years gone?
         [Ezra Rosenfeld]


From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 13:33:44 +0300
Subject: Ben Niddah and Mamzer

     Susan Sterngold asks about ben-niddah and also children being punished
for their parents sins.

     First of all a woman who has menstruated remains a niddah until she
goes to the mikvah be it 2 weeks or 20 years. A swimming pool might be a
mikvah if it had mainly rainwater. Oceans and some rivers qualify as a
mikveh. Hence, it is conceivable that a woman could go to a mikveh
without intending to or realizing it. What qualifies as a kosher mikvah
is very complicated and even the standard LOR would not decide on such

     As to her second question that is more difficult. The frequently
asked question is why should a mamzer (offspring of an illegal marriage,
e.g.  a woman who did not receive a get from from her first marriage) be
punished for the sins of his parents? My personal answer is that this is
a spiritual disease and it is no different than children receiving any
disease from their parents. It isn't fair that the children of drug
addicts suffer because of their parents. Just as biological traits are
inherited so are spiritual traits. I am well aware that this will not
satisfy everyone.



From: Aaron Peromsik <peromsik@...>
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 20:57:14 -0400
Subject: Big Three

A few people have complained here that, while it's easy enough to tell
whether the Cohens next door are keeping Kosher and observing Shabbat,
you can't tell whether they are keeping taharat hamishpacha.

I don't know where the idea of the "Big Three as Religious Barometer"
came from, but the inclusion of Taharat Hamishpacha suggests to me
that the original intention was probably to use them as a barometer of
your *own* religiosity, not that of others. If you don't know whether
or not you're practicing Taharat Hamishpacha, ask your rabbi. But the
real lesson here, as I see it, is this: Worry about yourself first.

Aaron Peromsik        |    Good Morning! Are we having fun yet?
<peromsik@...>  |    Every solution breeds new problems.


From: Gerald Sacks <sacks@...>
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 09:06:22 EDT
Subject: Chalav Yisrael

Yechiel Pisem claims that there are two different brands of milk, one
Chalav Yisrael and one not, that come from the same farms.  How does he
know what farms they come from?  Dairies buy milk from numerous farms,
most of which do not have mashgichim.


From: <plaufer@...> (Pinchus Laufer)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 08:33:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Cholov Yisroel: Same Cows

> Yechiel Pisem <ypisem@...> asks:
>Following is an interesting question:
>Where I live, in Brooklyn, NY, there are 2 different brand names of milk 
>marketed by the same people with cows from the same farm.  One brand is 
>Chalav Yisrael and one is not.  Would anyone who eats/drinks only Chalav 
>Yisrael use the 2 brands?

The cows are not what is at issue - it is the supervision. 25 years ago
in a camp I attended in the Catskills, someone would go to a local dairy
farm each day to observe the milking.  The same milk was available
without this extra effort, but would clearly not qualify as Cholov



From: Ezra Rosenfeld <zomet@...>
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 17:03:05 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Gedolim Ratings

There are tens of thousands of Bnei Torah who consider Rav Shaul
Yisraeli as the Gedol HaPoskim alive today. Probably an equal number
consider Rav Yoseif Shalom Elyashiv as such. Many think that Rav Aharon
Lichtenstein is the Gedol HaDor etc.

I have no doubt that all those people consider Rav Shlomo Zalman
Auerbach a leading Poseik as well. To state that everyone considers him
"the" greatest Poseik is a bit presumptuous.


From: <JODY@...> (Yosef Branse)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 03:13:26 -0400
Subject: Halacha/Mishna Yomis

In V13, #35, Ed Bruckstein asked about schedules for the Halacha Yomis and
Mishna Yomis. 

In Israel, there are calendars put out by "Ha-Mif'al ha-olami l'limud
ha-mishna v'ha-halacha ha-yomis" (International Project (?) for Learning
the Mishna and Halacha Yomis).

Their address: 2 Torat Chaim
               POB 1131
               Bnei Barak
Phone: (972)-03-764925

In the U.S., you might try contacting Agudat Israel. I believe they have
some group coordinating Daf Yomi worldwide; maybe the same folks can
provide information on these other programs.

 Yosef (Jody) Branse       University of Haifa Library                    
                           Mt. Carmel, Haifa 31905, Israel                
 Internet/ILAN:     <JODY@...>                                  
                                       "Ve'taher libenu le'ovdecha, VMS"  


From: Zev Kesselman <zev%<hadassah@...>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 08:52:49 EDT
Subject: Joseph and bitachon

	An Israeli twist (a drasha I heard a number of years ago, in
Mevasseret Zion):

	The language used in Joseph's request indicates that he was
really asking for "protekzia" from a government official.  God's
'esteem' for this Israeli institution is what earned Joseph two more
years in the slammer.
					Zev Kesselman


From: Stephen Phillips <stephenp@...>
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 12:53 BST-1
Subject: Kesuboh Writing Program

The Rav of our Shul asked me yesterday if it were possible for me to
type into a printed Kesuboh the names of the Choson and Kaloh, the
date, place, etc. in hebrew characters using my PC. I said that it
would only be feasible if one were to type the whole Kesuboh out
using the computer.

Our Rav believes that in Manchester Dayan Westheim uses a PC for
printing out Kesubos and I was wondering if anyone has any
information about this. I could do it on my PC using a hebrew
TrueType font in Windows, but there still remains the question of the
decorative border around the Kesuboh.

The reason our Rav would like to have the Kesuboh printed out using a
PC is that he has a Sefer which suggests that it is preferable for
the whole Kesuboh (including the names, etc.) to written using the
same K'sav [style of writing].

Stephen Phillips


From: Sam Juni <JUNI@...>
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 22:59:57 -0400
Subject: Machlokes re Fact in Talmud

In regard to the ongoing discussion, it appears that there is one type
of Macklokes (argument) which is tautologically one of fact: the case
where two scholars argue what it is that a previous scholar said or
meant.  Such arguments dot the Talmud and are obviously such that one is
view is correct while the other is not.

     Dr. Sam Juni                  Fax (212) 995-3474
     New York University           Tel (212) 998-5548
     400 East
     New York, N.Y.  10003


From: <dave@...> (David Sherman)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 23:58:33 -0400
Subject: Paintings and Photographs

Mark Steiner writes:

>  3.	Flat images are permitted to be made by the poskim, but there
> are a number of great rishonim (Ramban, Raavad, Ran) and perhaps the
> Vilna Gaon who say there is no difference between 3 and 2 dimensional
> images.

Aren't paintings and photographs of rabbonim commonly found in
frum homes of every stripe?  If so, does this mean no-one really takes
the stricter view on this matter today?

David Sherman


From: <sl14403@...> (Joel B. Wolowelsky)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 16:36:56 -0400
Subject: Post mortem use of frozen semen

In Torah shebe-al Pe (#33), R. Shaul Yisraeli rules that if frozen semen is
used to inseminate a women after the donor has died, the resulting child has
no halakhic relationship to the genetic father (even if he was the husband
of the woman who was inseminated).  In an as-yet unpublished brief responsum
[no analysis given], he extended this to frozen embryos implanted after the
genetic father has died.  

Does anyone know of parallels to this in other legal systems?

Please respond by post-office mail in addition to MJ, as I will soon be off
MJ until the end of the summer.

Have a healthy and productive summer.

Joel Wolowelsky
Yeshivah of Flatbush HS
1609 Avenue J
Brooklyn, NY 11230


From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 11:18:17 +0300
Subject: Rabbi Schwab and the missing 165 years

     Mechy Frankel points out that Rav Schwab published an article
claiming that Chazal deliberately hid the missing 165 years for their
own reasons.  He further justifies why he is revealing the reason when
they hid it.
     I have heard rumors that since then that Rav Schwab has repudiated
that article. If there are any subscribers in the Breuer community it
would of interest if they could verify what the facts are.



From: A. M. Goldstein <MZIESOL@...>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 14:13:13 IST
Subject: Religious Moral Dilemma

Here is a dilemma I face and would be interested in reactions, if
possible in sources relating to the problem.  I am in my 12 months of
mourning, and consequently do not attend public entertainments or
party-dinners.  I also see to it to get to a minyan for shaharit
(morning services) and minha- maariv (evening services).  My department
at work is going on its annual trip, to Jerusalem, and for the reasons
above-stated, I informed that I could not go (interfering are the lunch
we all have together--20 or so persons--and having to leave the group or
stay behind in Jerusalem in order to be sure to get to a minyan for
minha {around 7:30 p.m. these days} rather than take my chances of
arriving back in Haifa in time; the touring part of the trip is not so
problematic).  By my not going, however, the group will almost certainly
go to a treif (non-kosher) restaurant, whether Jewish or Arab.  ("A
range of restaurants opens up for us" was the response I got when
mentioning my not going.)  My going forces them to seek a restaurant
that is kosher, with hashgacha (supervision).  Do I therefore go?


From: Ezra Rosenfeld <zomet@...>
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 16:02:22 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Where have those 165 years gone?

The suggestion referred to by Curwin sounds like it should have been 
attributed  to Rabbi Schwab of Washington Heights in an article written  
a few decades ago (morality in scholarship?).
Rav Yaacov Meidan of Yeshivat Har Etzion wrote a major article on the 
Persian period (and the 165 years) in Megaddim a few years ago. I highly 
recommend it to anyone literate in hebrew.



End of Volume 13 Issue 71