Volume 14 Number 55
                       Produced: Fri Jul 29 12:28:12 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

4 Hours
         [Yosef Bechhofer]
Akeida - Two Thoughts
         [Jeff Korbman]
Anesthesia and Bris (v14n53)
         [Rivkah Isseroff]
Anesthesia for Brit Milah
         [Jerome Parness]
Learning Brisk Method: Academic vs. Apprenticeship
         [Abe Perlman]
Machaneh Yisrael
         [Yisrael Medad]
Pasuk Fragments
         [Mike Grynberg]
Rabbenu Tam Tefillen
         [Aryeh A. Frimer]
Wonder-Drops for Fasting
         [Sam Juni]
Yerushalmi On Kodashim
         [Yosef Bechhofer]
Yerushalmi on Kodoshim
         [Moishe Kimelman]
Yeshiva Recommendations
         [Hillel Eli Markowitz]
Yeshivos and college
         [Chaya Gurwitz]


From: <YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 01:04:26 -0400
Subject: 4 Hours

Brigitte Safran asks about the four hour minhag. In fact, the quote I
recently noted (it's from the Darchei Teshuva) from Reb Dovid Pardo
specifically mentions 4 hours.


From: Jeff Korbman <KORBMANJ@...>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 11:40:59 -0400
Subject: Akeida - Two Thoughts

Akeida - Two Thoughts

A look at this week's parsha (10, posuk 12) indicates to us what G-d
wants from us, namely "to fear the Lord thy G-d and walk in His ways..."

To attain Yirat Hashem, fear of G-d, is one of the purposes for which
we've been created.  But this Yirah-thing is tricky.  It's up to us to
obtain.  In fact, the famous Gemara passage in Berochot (33b) states
that everything we know and do us in the hands of Heaven except one
thing: Fear of Heaven/G-d.

On the posuk in our parsha stated above, Yosef Albo, in Sefer Ikkarim,
points out something very interesting.  He writes, "The patriarch
Abraham was never called 'G-d fearing' until after he had gone through
the trials", specifically the Akeidah where G-d says to him that he is
now deemed 'G-d fearing' (Gen.  22 posuk 12).  Can you imagine that!
The man goes through 9 tests and passes them all, and he stills not G-d
fearing!  It took the Akeidah to cross the bridge in order for Abraham
to achieve the type of relatioship with G-d that He wants with us.

Second Thought: After the Aikedah we do not see G-d speak with Abaraham
again in the Torah.  What do we make of this?  I have no clue - but
thanks for reading.


From: Rivkah Isseroff <rrisseroff@...>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 00:43:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Anesthesia and Bris (v14n53)

In Vol 14 #52, Harry Weiss reported his conversation with a Mohel who
performed a bris on a child who had recieved topical anesthesia. The
Mohel's concern was that the anesthesia caused local tissue swelling and
may hinder wound healing. To my knowledge, although lidocaine (the type
of drug in the cream) can, indeed, slow the rate of wound contraction in
artificial, "in vitro" situations, there is no evidence in the medical
literature that the topical anesthesia used (EMLA cream) hinders wound
healing in real-life clinical situations..  Anectdotally, I use it
frequently for minor surgeries,and have noted no impairment in the rate
of wound healing or the quality of the healed wound.

Rivkah Isseroff,M.D.
Department of Dermatology
University of California, Davis


From: <parness@...> (Jerome Parness)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 20:23:12 -0400
Subject: Anesthesia for Brit Milah

As an anesthesiologist, I figure it is about time I responded to the recent 
debate on anesthesia for brit milah. The discussion has involved the mention 
of drawing of blood during placement of the anesthetic obscuring hatafat dam 
(the drawing of blood) required for the kashrut of the brit and the 
anesthetic causing swelling of the penis making the site of milah more 
difficult to heal. Both of these statements reveal ignorance of the 
techniques of anesthesia for circumcision (there are more than one) that 
would not cause bleeding or swelling of the glans.

The problems discussed above would only occur if the local anesthetic were 
placed under the skin of the penis just below the glans, or crown of the 
penis, to numb the skin above. However, another technique, known as a penile 
block, does not use circumferential local anesthetic placement.  Rather, a 
single injection of a small amount of concentrated local anesthetic is made 
at the base of the penis just below the pubic bone, at a point where the 
major nerve innervating the penis enters. This renders the penis insensate, 
does not cause bleeding that could be mistaken for "hatafat dam", nor does 
it cause any change in the skin around the glans that could inhibit healing. 
 Hence, the difficulties mentioned above are obviated.  This is not to say 
that I am "has v'shalom" paskening that anesthesia for a brit is OK. Ask 
your LOR, and if it is halachically permissible, and you want it done, get 
someone who knows what he/she is doing.

Jerome Parness MD PhD                                  
Depts. Anesthesia, Pharmacology & Pediatrics                         
UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, New Brunswick, NJ 08903
Phone: (908)235-4824    - FAX:     (908)235-4073


From: Abe Perlman <abeperl@...>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 3:45:26 EDT
Subject: Learning Brisk Method: Academic vs. Apprenticeship

   Dr. Sam Juni offered me this constructive critiqe:

>In his post of 7/24/94, Mordechai Perlman posits that the Brisk analytic
>method cannot be mastered from a text, but that it must be learned via
>Whenever I come across a discipline which precludes formal instruction, I
>become suspicious.  What is the rationale for the exclusion? It would seem
>that a text-based analytic method should be eminently describable in
>operational terms.  I find it ironic that this exclusion is suggested re the
>Brisk method, in view of R. Chaim Brisker's basic premise "Oib es felt in
>hasburuh, felt es in havunuh" (If there is a deficit in explanation, the
>deficit is actually in understanding).

   It is true that a text-based analytic method should be eminently
describable in operational terms.  However, this is not the case with
the book by Rabbi Wachtfogel.  It describes the use of the Brisker
Derech in certain instances and even the rationale behind doing so.
However, it didn't seem that it could be absorbed into one's thinking
process except by some good few years spent thinking in that fashion.  I
stand corrected if I'm wrong.

Mordechai Perlman


From: MEDAD%<ILNCRD@...> (Yisrael Medad)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 06:45:25 -0400
Subject: Machaneh Yisrael

Two remarks on the query by S. Freidel in Vol. 14 No 48:

a) There is an early Biluim song "S'u Tziyona Nes V'degel, degel
Machaneh Yehuda" in which obviously the term Machaneh Yehuda was used
for the Jewish People in a collective sense and most probably was based
on traditional sources.

b) "Machaneh Yisrael" is the name of a small volume of Laws pertaining
to the behavior of a religious Jew is a Goyishe army penned by the
Chofetz Chayim.

Yisrael Medad


From: <spike@...> (Mike Grynberg)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 12:15:40 +0200
Subject: Pasuk Fragments

Hello. I was wondering if someone out there could help me out. I seem to
have heard somewhere that it is incorrect to use pasuk fragments, as 
opposed to a whole pasuk, for instance in tefilla, or friday night
kiddush when one says "yom hashishi".
If a source exists for this, I would be interested to know what it is,
and if it exists how do we we justify using pasuk fragments.

It is so easy to prove anything you want from a word or two. 



From: <frimer@...> (Aryeh A. Frimer)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 09:54:59 -0400
Subject: Rabbenu Tam Tefillen

	A' propos the discussion on Rabbenu Tam Tefillen: The view of
the Rambam (introduction to Mishnayot and elsewhere) is that any halacha
transmitted to us by Moshe rabbenu is free of Machloket. Tefillen is for
the most part halakha le-Moshe Mi-Sinai (that it is black, square, has a
three headed shin on one side and a four headed shin on the other, is
knotted with a yod on the hand and Daled on the head, has four separate
parshiyot in the head and one continuous parchment with all four in one
compartment in the tefillen shel Yad, that Totafot in the torah means
tefillen and that bein einekhah means on your head above the bridge of
your nose - which is between your eyes etc.). How can there be a dispute
then about the ORDERING of the parshiyot?
	I remember once hearing, though I've forgotten the source, that
the four parshiyot are biblical but the order is not. Has anyone heard
anything about this subject?


From: Sam Juni <JUNI@...>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 21:48:25 -0400
Subject: Wonder-Drops for Fasting

For the last Tisha B'Av, there were ads all over for Wonder Drops from Israel
with an endorsement from a Hareidi Dayan, to ease fasting.  Does anyone have
the scoop on this phenomenon?

     Dr. Sam Juni                  Fax (212) 995-3474
     New York University           Tel (212) 998-5548
     400 East
     New York, N.Y.  10003


From: <YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 19:47:11 -0400
Subject: Yerushalmi On Kodashim

Elie Rosenfeld asks for more information on various issues on the topic.
In the 5752 issue of our Yeshiva (Skokie Yeshiva, or HTC)'s Torah
Journal "Or Shmuel" I have a fifteen page essay on the topic, with
pictures. I am "nogai'a" (biased) of course, but I think it's a pretty
comprehensive treatment. If anyone would like it faxed, I will be happy
to do so, although since I will do it from the Yeshivs'a fax machine it
would be nice if you would please send a donation to them.  The essay is
in English.


From: Moishe Kimelman <kimel@...>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 12:38:41 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Yerushalmi on Kodoshim

The Artscroll-Mesorah book "Rebbes of Ger" (1987) deals with the story of 
the fake Yerushalmi on pages 222-225.

In brief, the forger claimed to be Shlomo Yaouda Algazi s"t (an 
abbreviation that Sefardim often add to their names, and whose meaning
is a point of dispute and discussion) from Hungary, but he was also known 
as Friedlander.

Many Gedolim took the book at it's face value and supplied approbations 
and comments.  Only after the book reached Poland did suspicions emerge.  
In 1910, Rabbi Meir Dan Plotzki (the Kli Chemdah) published a book by the 
name "Sha'au Shlom Yerushalayim" (his pun intended) showing that the 
entire work was a forgery.  He also showed how the supposed 
"Hungarian-Sefaradi" was in fact born in Lithuania.

In "Rosh Golat Ariel" (Machon Amudei Haor, Jerusalem - 5750) - the biography 
of the father of the present Gerer Rebbe, the Imrei Emet - page 362 footnote 
46, it states that rumor had it that after the Gerer Rebbe was given a piece
of the manuscript to examine, he made a small tear in the paper and saw that
the inner layers of paper were white despite the surface of the paper 
appearing old.  This was enough for the Gerer Rebbe, a collector of rare 
Torah-manuscripts, to decide that the work was a forgery.

Moishe Kimelman


From: <HEM@...> (Hillel Eli Markowitz)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 23:17:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Yeshiva Recommendations

On Wed, 27 Jul 1994, Andy Goldfinger wrote:
> Can anyone recommend yeshivas/schools/programs for the following two
> boys:

> (2)  "Shimon" is a very bright 15 year old.  He is about to enter 10th
> grade.  He has a learning disability that makes it difficult for him to

> He is ready to transition to a real yeshiva (i.e. for 11th grade next
> year).  He needs a place that will provide some help with his
> disablity, and preferably one with a vocational track.  Of course, he
> is somewhat behind boys who have been in yeshiva since 9th grade, but
> he is very intelligent. He would need appropriate support in catching
> up.

I would suggest calling Rabbi Scott Steinman of PTACH in Baltimore.  They 
have a vocational program as well an excellent academic program.  He can 
be reached via TA or at his home.  The number is in the Eruv list. 

|  Hillel Eli Markowitz    |     Im ain ani li, mi li?      |
|  <H.E.Markowitz@...>   |   V'ahavta L'raiecha kamocha   |


From: <gurwitz@...> (Chaya Gurwitz)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 23:10:56 EDT
Subject: Yeshivos and college

Rabbis Adlerstein and Broyde mentioned Ner Yisrael and
Yeshiva University as examples of yeshivos at which it is
acceptable (and perhaps encouraged) for the students to attend

For the record, there are a number of other yeshivos at which
a high percentage of the talmidim go to college -- for example,
Ohr Dovid (in Queens), Darkei No'am (known as the "Bostoner Yeshiva",
in Brooklyn), and Torah Vo-Da'as. There are also a number of
yeshivos where college is officially taboo, but the administration
"looks the other way" when the students do go.

Chaya Gurwitz


End of Volume 14 Issue 55