Volume 16 Number 69
                       Produced: Sun Nov 20 14:34:37 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Carlebach Memorial
         [Yisrael Medad]
         [Zvi Weiss]
Esav's Wickedness?
         [Mike Grynberg]
Nutritional Stumbling Blocks
         [Josh Backon]
Payment for Teaching Torah
         [Aryeh Blaut]
Price of Kosher food
         [Motty Hasofer]
Rachel, etc.
         [Zvi Weiss]
Rav Shlomo Carlebach
         [Mois A. Navon]
Torah and Science
         [Mordechai Torczyner]


From: MEDAD%<ILNCRD@...> (Yisrael Medad)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 09:28 IST
Subject: Carlebach Memorial

A shloshim memorail for R. Shlomo Carlebach will be held at Heichal
Shlomo, Jerusaelm, Tuesday, Nov. 22 at 7:30 PM.
Yisrael Medad


From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 09:55:04 -0500
Subject: Diet

Re Richard Schwartz's latest posting about diet/osteoporosis, the most
recent issue of Consumer Reports on Health (CRH) had an article about
the so-called Mediterranean Diet.  This diet was spoke of very
positively in the article.  It strongly de-emphasizes protein in favor
of certain grains, fruits, etc.  Note that it does NOT ban any specific
food group.  One can argue in light of the medical evidence that there
may be an issue of "V'Nishmartem..." to adopt such a lifestyle/diet if
the evidence becomes more conclusive.  In addition, because of the
moderation that it urges in certian food categories (e.g., meats), this
may also provide a framework for a person to develop a "moderate"
lifestyle a la the Ramban's notion of "Kedoshim T'hyu".



From: <spike@...> (Mike Grynberg)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 08:20:05 +0200
Subject: Esav's Wickedness?

After these past few weeks, I have been wondering. Why is it that Esav
is so maligned. I know the commentaries ascribe all sorts of things to
him, but why? is there anything in the text, in the actual p'sukim, to
indicate an evil nature, or even a malicious one?
	It starts off when esav comes in and yaakov tricks him out of
his birthright. And that is what it amounts to. It is not just a simple
story, Esav is exhausted and hungry, and Yakov just sits there holding
the bowl in front of his face until he agrees.
	Even the fact that he married one of Yishmael's daughter's, (i
think, i don't have a tanach handy) which irritated his parents
according to the pasuk is understandable in light of the fact that for
Yitzchak, Avraham made sure to get someone from the family, and that was
all Esav was doing. Granted he did not divorce his other wives.
	When it actually comes time to receive the bracha, Yakov, in my
opinion outright lies, to receive the bracha from his father, it has
already been stolen. As I understand it, this is the physical aspect of
the bracha that yakov is stealing; the tradition from Avraham is passed
on to him a few p'sukim later.
	The pasuk at the end of the parsha identifies Edom with Esav.
certainly this is no praise, but there is not much can do to determine
who one's descendants will be.  This has troubled me for a number of
years and i have not heard any satisfactory explanations.  

Mike Grynberg


From: <BACKON@...> (Josh Backon)
Date: Sun,  20 Nov 94 9:57 +0200
Subject: RE: Nutritional Stumbling Blocks

I totally agree with what Richard Schultz mentioned. The Torah says LO TA'AMOD
AL DAM RE'ECHA. The Rambam devotes 3 whole chapters to personal hygiene
in his Mishna Torah. The Shulchan Aruch (Choshen Mishpat 153-156) lists the
safety precautions we must take and how we must remove dangerous objects
from our homes. So following the latest medical research is a CHIYUV.
For the record, let me suggest that the best ways to prevent osteoporosis
is: lower protein intake, get plenty of exercise, FORBID teenage girls to
drink Coca Cola (there was a recent paper on this in a pediatric journal
on phosphoric acid inducing osteoporosis), add magnesium and zinc to the
diet, do NOT drink more than 2 cups of brewed coffee a day (Am J Clin
Nutrition 1994;60:573 drinking more than 3 cups of brewed coffee a day
may accelerate bone loss in women with low calcium intake), and add
some plums and strawberries to your diet (Bone & Mineral 1994;26:81
xylitol, a sugar in plums and strawberries, increases calcium in bone
and may prevent osteoporosis).




From: Aryeh Blaut <ny000592@...>
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 94 20:17:17 -0800
Subject: Re: Payment for Teaching Torah

>>From: Jonathan Katz <frisch1@...>

Jonathan Katz writes:
> 3) A more interesting, but related, point is the question of Yeshiva
>teachers.  Apparently, it is forbidden to be paid to teach Torah. This
>came up one time in a class of mine, so we asked our Rabbi what he did
>and he gave the answer that he is not paid for teaching Torah but for
>the loss of his time during which he could be out earning money at
>another job (Maybe the phrasing could be better, I don't know). Any
>comments on this?

As a Fourth Grade Rebbe (who is procrastinating (sp?) at the moment), I
would like to add to the above reason for paying a Rabbi "for teaching
Torah".  I spend hours each night (Motzei Shabbas through Thurs) doing
"paper work" -- grading papers, recording scores, creating worksheets
and other teaching material, preparing posters, etc.  Included in my
duties is attending meetings several times a month.  I am expected to
attend certain school events (plays, fund raisers, etc).  I also end up
spending much time on the telephone speaking with students (and even
more so) with parents.  There is no "time off" (example -- I ran out to
Ma'ariv tonight (Motzei Shabbas) and needed to rush home.  It did not
stop a parent from coming over to me and asking how her daughter was
doing in my class!

It used to be that the community supplied for the needs of the Rebbe and
his family.  The duties of the Rebbe have grown (beyond just going to
class and teaching).  I would not want to add up the actual number of
hours that I work for the school in a non-teaching manner (lunch duty,
meetings, grading, etc) compared to the number of hours I am actually
teaching (in the class room with students).  It would make my "hourly
salary" so much less...

That's all for now -- back to correcting Navi Summaries...

Aryeh Blaut


From: Motty Hasofer <mottyh@...>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 21:22:00 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Price of Kosher food

We would like to have some assistance in the following task. If you
could help, please send the information to the address below. Thankyou
in advance for your help.

We are interested in comparing the prices paid for Kosher Meat in
different parts of the world. This is a subject that is of great concern
to those who keep Kosher due to the high costs involved relative to the
equivalent non Kosher products.

A simple survey of world prices is insufficient, as there are not only
exchange rates to be considered but also the variations in the cost of
living in different economies. One technique for estimating this
variation is to create an index based on a standard basket of goods,
however this is difficult in that it is often hard to find similar
goods. Some time ago it was proposed that the hamburger produced by
MacDonalds known as the "Big Mac" was an ideal candidate for such
comparisons due to the tight specifications maintained by the company in
all its worldwide operations.  Thus if one knows the price of a "Big
Mac" in Australia and in the UK one can be sure that the article is
indentical and represents the costs of a range of standard items in

To enable the comparison to be carried out we therefore need the 
following information 
1. Country 
2. City
3. The price of a "Big Mac" (each)
4. The price of  Whole Kosher Chicken ($/kg, $/pound, etc.)
5. The price of  Whole Non Kosher Chicken ($/kg, $/pound, etc.)
6. The price of  Kosher Chicken Breast Fillets ($/kg, $/pound, etc.)
7. The price of  Non Kosher Chicken Breast Fillets ($/kg, $/pound, etc.)

We will, G-d willing, post the findings of our survey after analasys.

Kol Tuv,

Motty Hasofer
Jewish Singles Services.  Working Group On Intermarriage.
159 Orrong Rd. East St. Kilda Victoria Australia.
Phone 61-3-5282216  Fax 61-3-5238235.


From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 14:07:49 -0500
Subject: Rachel, etc.

I found Shaul Wallach's presentation of R. S. R. Hirsch on Rachel to be
clear and insightful.  However, it should be emphasized that this is
*R. Hirsch's view*.  It does not represent some monolithic "Torah
Viewpoint".  It is *one* of [potentially] many legit. views from the

My objection to some of the earlier material was that the story of the
Avot appeared to be presented as *the* "Torah Perspective".  I felt [and
still feel] that there is no "one" Torah perspective.  The Torah is
infinite and addresses all times and places and we can learn from the
Torah for *our* time -- even if our time is not the "good old days".

As a slight aside: It has been my experience that the Hareidi point of
view is presented [by the Hareidi] as *the* correct philosophy and that
anything that is not "right" (i.e., as opposed to left or center) is
simply not "right" (i.e., incorrect).  This leads to unnecessary
divisiveness within our community as well as a "competition" as to whose
posek is "better" -- I do *not* mean which Posek is more scholarly but
which Posek is the one such that philosophies expressed by otehr poskim
are to be disregarded.

An interesting example of this is in the art Scroll bio of R. Chaim Ozer
ZT"L.  There is a vignette where a student asks R. Chaim to explain some
aspect of Hisrschian philosophy and R. Chaim's answer was -- in effect
-- that while R. Hirsch was a perfect Tzaddik, he [R. Chaim] is unable
to explain this philosophy at all.... and, later expressed strong
opposition to a Rav with a secular education assuming a position --
citing no other objection except that the Rav had the secular degree, as

My criticism of the exegisis was NOT because the idea is necessarily
wrong -- but because it sought to present it as the ONLY "Torah idea"
even if that meant rather selective analysis of material.  OF COURSE
there can be a place for very short engagements just as there can be a
place for very LONG engagements.  It is our "job" to study the Torah and
work with our Poskim (whoever they may be) to determine what the Torah
currently demands from US.



From: OPTI!RD!<MOISN@...> (Mois A. Navon)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 08:56:00 +0000
Subject: Rav Shlomo Carlebach

In Memorium of Rav Shlomo Carlebach, z"tzl
A Cherished First and Last Glimpse
Kislev 5755
Mois A. Navon (opti!rd!<moisn@...>)

I would like to share the following personal encounter which I believe
provides a glimpse at the greatness of the individual removed for this
earthly plane 30 days ago.  I, like many young ba'alei t'shuva, had
heard much about the famed Rav Shlomo Carlebach, z"tzl, but had never
made the effort to see the man behind the legend.  The truth is, I was
never really attracted to "frum music" and I tend to shy away from
personalities such as I (erroneously) believed the Rav was.  Several
months ago I finally had the merit of a face to face meeting with Rav
Shlomo, thrust upon me.

One mid-week evening, I attended a Torah lecture at the Yakar
learning center in Jerusalem.  Unbeknownst to me, later that very
evening Rav Shlomo was scheduled to perform at Yakar.  As our
Torah lecture was drawing to a close, more and more people were
filling the center in anticipation of Rav Shlomo's appearance.  My first
thought was to get out of there before I would be trapped in by so
many of the Rav's followers.  But then, as I made my way out toward
the back door, I stopped and said to myself, "Now I'm at the back
door. I can leave whenever I want. I might as well see who is this Rav
Shlomo that everyone is waiting for."  And as I stood, the room getting
increasingly full, I was beginning to become impatient.  I thought to
myself, "Boy this guy is really popular, I bet he acts like some big shot
Rock Star.  He's probably going to waltz in here with bodyguards
shoving in every direction."

And as I impatiently waited, a jovial smiling figure with deep warm
eyes approached the door.  Since he entered through the back door, I
was the first person Rav Shlomo encountered.  He approached me and
reached out as if we were long lost friends.  My stern hard face melted;
I couldn't help but smile back.  Rav Shlomo continued greeting and
embracing all in his path till he reached the front of the room.  I was
sufficiently moved that I decided it might be worth while to listen to
this remarkable individual.  In the course of the evening, he played
songs and spoke of spirituality, explicating the greatness of Aharon as
the pursuer of peace and Jerusalem as a national treasure.  I knew then
that I had merited a glimpse at greatness.  What I didn't know was that
it was to be my last chance to be in his presence.  I will miss him but I
will not forget him.  May his memory be a merit to himself and to all
Israel. Amen.


From: Mordechai Torczyner <torczynr@...>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 00:53:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Torah and Science

	As interesting and edifying as the "Flood" and "Age" discussions 
have been, I have to wonder at the need for anyone to attempt to 
reconcile the Torah's accounts and scientific findings. After all of the 
scientists' hyperbole about irrefutable facts and realistic hypotheses, 
the bottom line is that quite often, the geniuses of the world slip up. 
That the slip catches on and becomes "fact" is less a function of the 
soundness of the research methods, and more of general gullibility in 
dealing with the impressive statements of doctorates, laureates, et al.

	N.Y.Times (11/16, pg. B8, "Space Telescope..."):
		Last month the [Hubble] telescope gave a measure of the
	expansion rate of the universe that implied its age could be as
	young as 8 billion years, even though its oldest stars have been 
	measured (!) as 16 billion.  
Gee, that must have been depressing for all of those cosmologists. 16 
billion chopped in half to 8 billion...what's next, 6 thousand? Naahhh...


End of Volume 16 Issue 69