Volume 17 Number 38
                       Produced: Tue Dec 20 22:24:47 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Administrivia - mj-chaburah
         [Avi Feldblum]
Chassidic shechita
         [Warren Burstein]
Cohen-Marriage;  Shechitah
         [Doni Zivotofsky]
Different Halachic Practices
         [Isaac Balbin]
Haredim and the Future
         [Alan Ash]
Hebrew Pronounciation
         [Binyomin Segal]
Inspiration from the Torah!
         [Stan Tenen]
Location of Rav Moshe's Teshuva
         [Shmuel Weidberg]
New List Announcement: TORAH-FORUM
         ["Project Genesis"]
With my apologies, a final comment - Sherut-Leumi
         [Yaakov Menken]


From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 22:16:39 -0500
Subject: Administrivia - mj-chaburah

Someone correctly pointed out that I never defined/explained what I
meant by a classical Yeshiva Chaburah. I should do that since what I
think off may not be the same as what other people think, and there are
those who have no idea at all.

A Chaburah was something between a shiur and a chavruta. A shiur is a
Rebbe teaching the class, a chavruta is two (typically) students
studying some text together. A chaburah is when a group of advanced
students get together to deal with some topic in detail and for a short
period of time. Typically, one of the students will lead the
chaburah. His job is to put together a list of sources that he thinks
will define the issue. This is then given to all the other members of
the chaburah. Each student (or likely each pair of students in chavruta)
go and study the sources. All the members of the chaburah then get
together to begin the joint learning. The "lead" member for that topic
begins in a "Rebbe" mode, where he will give a intro shiur based on the
sources that he originally gave everyone (and also the few sources that
he managed to "forget" to give over in advance so he will have something
new to say :-) ). After that the rest of the chaburah join in discussing
the topic, challanging his interpretation, bringing up other sources
that they found etc. After some period of time, the topic is considered
closed, a new "lead" and topic chosen, and it all restarts.

This, in an electronic form, is what I envision for mj-chaburah.

Avi Feldblum
mail-jewish Moderator
<mljewish@...> or feldblum@cnj.digex.net


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 10:52:39 GMT
Subject: Re: Chassidic shechita

Could someone explain just how Chassidic shechita differs?  How is the
sharpening different, and are there other differences?

 |warren@         bein hashmashot, in which state are the survivors
/ nysernet.org    buried?


From: <DONIZ@...> (Doni Zivotofsky)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 01:06:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Cohen-Marriage;  Shechitah

A friend in Ont. CA told me that he heard on the radio today, of a
recent case were the rabbinic court in Israel prohibited a Cohen from
marrying a Jewish woman because of something that her ancestors had done
2500 years ago.  I could not explain this and was hoping that one of the
more knowledgeable members of the list would be kind enough to explain

There have been several allusion on Mail-Jewish, recently that
Chasidishe shechitah means more than that the Shochet was a chasid; to
the affect that they poskin that the knife must be prepared differently
or other real chumras.
 I asked a "regular" shochet and he was unaware of any difference.  Can
someone who has l'ma'aseh (hands-on) knowledge please shed light on this

TIA    <DoniZ@...>


From: Isaac Balbin <isaac@...>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 16:57:35 +1100
Subject: Re: Different Halachic Practices

  | >From: Richard Friedman <RF@...>

The relevant Gemora is in Yevomos 13B. This discusses the problems
of differing practices within a locale although some of your questions
were tangential to this in that they also touch on doing things so 
that someone might not feel uncomfortable. The latter is a different
consideration and I am not sure it was the main thrust of your
question. See also Mogen Avrohom Tof Zadi Gimel.
Some interesting responsa flowing from this include Sridei Eish, 
first book, Igros Moshe on wearing Tfillin on Chol Hamoed.
If you want to get in deep then Dibros Moshe on Yevomos ad loc 
is good going. I believe I got the sources correct, I am at 
work ... no Seforim ... email me if something seems wrong.


From: <AASH@...> (Alan Ash)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 21:36:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Haredim and the Future

SHAUL WALLACH haredim &the army mentions 
>the haredi yeshivot and the torah they are learning today will be the 
> inheritance of our children tomorrow,

i hope he is not serious. our teachers of tomorrow have to have a
background in everything. not just learning for the sake of learning but
learning for the sake of doing, teaching, helping,& caring. the more
knowledge they have the better. the more they have helped shape the
world around them the better .

alan ash 


From: <bsegal@...> (Binyomin Segal)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 20:33:14 -0600
Subject: Hebrew Pronounciation

Daniel Geretz writes about having learned sephardic pronounciation thoug
his father used the ashkenazik

>Being a basically lazy person, I'm not
>sure I'm that committed to changing pronunciation, unless there is a
>really good reason to do so.

Rav Moshe (in his tshuvos) & Rav Kook (as quoted by Rav Ovadia Yosef) both
agree that minhag is the deciding factor - ie if your father & his father
etc used a particular pronounciation you are required to use that one as

As far as I could find, only sephardic (Rav Ovadia Yosef for example)
poskim allow switching at all - and then only to sephardic pronounciation.

On a non-halachik thought though - I too learned sephardic first. (In fact
when I learned about the Bris Bein HaB'Sarim I thought it meant the
covenant between the pieces of flesh, instead of Brit Bein HaB'Tarim) I
switched slowly over the course of 2 years - in my senior year in high
school & first year in yeshiva in Israel. It wasn't easy - but it is fun
now :)



From: Stan Tenen <meru1@...>
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 19:55:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Inspiration from the Torah!

Rabbi Kalman Packouz asked for feedback on the Dvar Torah by Rabbi 
Gedaliah Glatt in m-j 17,20:
    What we give during our lifetime is exactly what we are, no more, no 
less.  This is because our essence is giving. That is what Adam means: 
An Archetype of Consciousness (Aleph) Dispensing (Dalet) itself into the 
Great Expanse of the world (Mem final.)  We ourselves ARE "the 
archetypal means of pouring out our small portion of G-d-consciousness 
throughout our life.  We ARE a means by which Hashem "spends" and 
extends Himself into this world.  Adam (that's us) is at "the end of the 
line" Qav that erupts from Zimzum, so to speak.

This is also the essence of the nightly ego-death experience of the 
Tzaddikim when they sacrifice themselves to the Great Flame in their 
meditations each night. A person who makes themselves Bitul and 
consciously gives of their all throughout their lifetime and without 
reservation, in effect, voluntarily (ego-)dies every moment of every 
day.  Such a person dies in peace because they have already given up 
everything they have (all things, all vanities) and they have 
accumulated nothing physical.  Thus nothing is wrenched away at their 
death and they can die in complete peace and harmony.  Such a person has 
been practicing this all of their lives. (Rabbi Akiva is an example of 
this. He died at peace even though the Romans were combing the very skin 
off of his body.)  In my opinion, one essential purpose of Torah is to 
teach us how to live and that necessarily readies us to die.  

Thanks for the posting, B'Shalom,


From: Shmuel Weidberg <shmuel@...>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 23:56:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Location of Rav Moshe's Teshuva

I have been asked for the location of the Rav Moshe's teshuva to his
son-in-law, Rabbi Tendler, where he states that there is no mitzva to
learn how to save lives, rather only if you already know how to save a
life, is there a mitzva to do so.

The source is in Igros Moshe, Yore De'ah Chelek 2, Siman 151. It is a
teshuva concerning dissecting a deceased body for the purpose of gaining
medical knowledge.



From: "Project Genesis" <ny000548@...>
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 94 21:11:15 -0500
Subject: New List Announcement: TORAH-FORUM

Well, here's yet another list that may help to reduce the volume here on 
mail-jewish (Avi hopes so!):


Torah-Forum is a list founded to stimulate and facilitate discussion of 
traditional Jewish texts and their traditional interpretations.  We 
offer Torah-Forum for the sharing of insights and information regarding 
Tanach, Halacha, Talmud, Midrash and Jewish philosophy worldwide.

Torah-Forum encourages and invites the participation of those from all 
shades and flavors of Jewish life.  Torah-Forum will discuss the issues 
in a straightforward, friendly fashion that can appeal to all those with 
an interest in traditional approaches, regardless of their own 
affiliations. It will also provide a place in cyberspace where the 
curious seeker can slake his or her thirst for information by 
interacting with those who have devoted years to serious Torah study.
We would like nothing more than to become an address through which any 
Jew can be put in contact with experts in traditional Jewish thought,
while offering scholars an "on-line Bais Medrash" - a house of study where 
they will feel comfortable contributing actively to ongoing discussions. 

To subscribe to Torah-Forum, send mail to <listproc@...>
Subject: <none>
subscribe torah-forum Sam Schwartz     [change as appropriate!]

[Use the same format to join _any_ Project Genesis on-line class:
Genesis - Weekly D'var Torah with information on P.G. lists & programs
DvarTorah - Divrei Torah from around the world - with volunteer contributors
Gossip  - Or, what _not_ to say - with Ellen Solomon
Halacha-Yomi - Jewish Law, Daily - with a roundtable of contributors
Maharal - The Sayings of the Fathers with Maharal's commentary
Proverbs - The Book of Mishlei, Elucidated by Rabbi Yaakov Spivak
Ramchal - Rabbi M.C. Luzzato's "Path of the Just" w/ Rabbi Yaakov Menken
RavFrand - Rabbi Yissachar Frand's weekly parsha class from Baltimore
Tefila - A discussion of Jewish prayer with Rabbi Chaim Szmidt]

Reach us by gopher at israel.nysernet.org

Looking forward to seeing you in the Project Genesis corner of CyberSpace...
Project Genesis: A New Dawn for Jewish Education    Tel: (914) 356 - 3040
P.O. Box 1230                                       Fax: (914) 356 - 6722
Spring Valley, NY  10977-8230                 <genesis@...>      


From: Yaakov Menken <ny000548@...>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 94 13:27:36 -0500
Subject: With my apologies, a final comment - Sherut-Leumi

Eli Turkel's recent statements were stronger than the facts warrant.  A 
young woman at a "Sherut-Leumi-style" religious organization [both names 
withheld] responds as follows:  true, no one who goes AWOL is going to be
arrested.  But stopping Sherut Leumi is _not_ quitting a job:  it is 
abandoning a _signed_commitment_ to the State of Israel.  Nor do all 
women serve in religious environments.  Therefore several schools now 
offer quasi-Sherut-Leumi programs with far "fewer ties" than the "Aguda" 
government program.  According to Zvi and Eli, why is this necessary?

Please forgive my perplexing phrasing: HEAVEN FORBID that I should say 
something about any _individual_ in Sherut Leumi; all the more so the 
majority!  But if poskim say an activity (such as attending my coed alma 
mater) is "risky" (they have), then we must "be concerned for the few." 
Really: AS few as Bais Yaakov? Almost all O. girls do fine at Princeton; 
I still think a girl should listen to Da'as Torah and not dorm there.

So much for side issues.  Let us return to the original complaint: that 
Da'as Torah can "stifle."  One of the prime examples was O-C-R Boards of 
Rabbis, so the demise of the most prominent such Board is not merely
"anecdotal."  Now Melech Press assures us that the Boards did _not_ come 
into existence with the Rav's warm approbation.  So what happened when 
certain Rabbis ignored "stifling" Da'as Torah?  The world claimed non-
existent allies on their behalf, and the result strayed closer to Chilul 
HaShem than anything positive.  Could a better adjective be "helpful"?

Enough said.  I promise.  [Bli Neder.]

Yaakov Menken


End of Volume 17 Issue 38